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Message: <blockquote data-quote="pemerton" data-source="post: 7963627" data-attributes="member: 42582">If the statement becomes it's murder to intentionally kill another person of status without justification or excuse then it probably gets closer to the truth.Most manslaughter tends to involve either a lack of intention (eg gross negligence) or some degree of excuse (eg provocation, for those jurisdictions that have such a concept).One big difference between many contemporary legal systems and at least some ancient legal codes, that is relevant to D&D, is a that in most modern codes consent is not a justification for killing, so that killing someone in a duel is still murder. Whereas in the context of the Icelandic sagas and most D&D campaigns killing someone who chooses to fight you is not murder.How choice/consent relates to killing in war is interesting.In LotR Book III, Saruman also sets out a very permissive theory of authorisation of soldiers to kill:it was not by design of your own that you [Gimili] became embroiled in [the troubles of this land], and I will not blame such part as you have played - a valiant one, I doubt not. . . . To every man his part. Valour in arms is yours, and you [Eomer] win high honour thereby. Slay whom your lord names as enemies, and be content. . . . But my lord of Rohan, am I to be called a murderer, because valiant men have fallen in battle? If you [Theoden] go to war, needlessly, for I did not desire it, the men will be slain. But if I am a murder on that account, then all the House of Eorl is stained with murder, for they have fought many wars, and assailed many who defied them. Yet with some they have afterwards made peace, none the worse for being politic.Theoden's retort to Saruman has two limbs:Even if your war on me was just - as it was not . . . - even so, what will you say of your torches in Westfold and the children that lie dead there? And they hewed Hama's body before the gates of the Hornburn, after he was dead.There is a suggestion here that political command and valour in arms provide a justication for killing only if the cause is just. But Theoden's stronger point concerns unjustified and inexcusable killings and other wrongful conduct.Hence, in a D&D game that wants to be reasonably light-hearted I would suggest leaving out orcish non-combatants.</blockquote>

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