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Message: <blockquote data-quote="pemerton" data-source="post: 7963709" data-attributes="member: 42582">I've just spent the last couple of hours re-reading bits of LotR.Here is JRRT's account of the end of the Battle of the Pelennor Fields:Hard fighting and long labour that had still, for the Southrons were bold men and grim, and fierce in despair; and the Easterlings were strong and war-hardened and asked for no quarter. And so in this place and that, by burned homestead or barn, upon hillock or mound, under wall or on field, still they gathered and rallied and fought until the day wore away. Then the Sun went at lat behind Mondolluin and filled all the sky with a great burning, so that the hills and the mountains were dyed as with blood; fire glowed in the River, and the grass of the Pelennor lay read in the nightfall. And in that hour the great Battle of the field of Gondor was over; and not one living foe was left within the circle of the Rammas. All were slain save those who fled to die, or to drown in the red foam of the River. Few ever came eastward to Morgul or Mordor; and to the land of the Haradrim came only a tale from far off: a rumour of the wrath and terror of Gondor.Do orcs seek quarter? Do they surrender and submit to "benevolent quarantine"? If they are known to be treacherous, are those who fight them obliged to offer terms? And that's before we think about the full measure of retirbutive violence that might be justly inflicted upon orcs.In the context of LotR, what primiarly distinguishes the soldiers of Gondor and Rohan from those of Mordor and its allies is that the former fight with justice on their side while the latter do not. The latter are invadiers and subjugators, and hence doubly liable to be killed (because liable both to defensive and retributive violence) while the former are defenders who fight in the name of the true king. That's not a trivial set of distinctions independent of the question of quarter.Of course it's possible to dispute the permissibility of retributive violence, and also to insist on a stricter threshold for defensive violence. But D&D tends to default to standard fantasy tropes which include a high degree of permissiveness in both respects.</blockquote>

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