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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Todd Roybark" data-source="post: 7964131" data-attributes="member: 6920677">I want to say thank you Oofta, for sharing your views.  This is an interesting discussion.  I hope everyone, feels safe in expressing their viewpoint.In my view, if the sentence quoted above is true, then the Objective Moral Reality inherent to D&D is an existential threat to the game’s longevity.If D&D can only tell one particular type of story, then it’s RPG niche is very small.I lost interest in 2e D&D, not due to any mechanical defects, (We did not use kits <img class="smilie smilie--emoji" alt="😄" src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f604.png" title="Grinning face with smiling eyes    :smile:" data-shortname=":smile:" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" />),but rather, because I felt, I had exhausted the creative potential of the metaphysics hard baked into the mechanics.An evergreen version of D&D, HAS to have moral relativity as a prominently viable option, or else the bloom will come off the rose, as it were.The system, has to  be able to tell multiple tropes well, or like prior editions, the story types 5e excels at ‘telling’, will get stale.No, Asmodeus is the personification of Necessary Evil.  Chaos, and demons are elective evil.The Higher Planes, are the only realms, where Absolute Good can exist.The Higher Planes are the only locations in the multiverse, where one can have their cake and eat it it too.In effect, the Higher Planes are the locations in the multiverse, not bound by Cause and Effect, which is what Karma is in essence, Cause and Effect.An Angel, such as Zariel for example, that becomes embroiled in concerns outside of the Higher Planes, becomes subject to the Necessary Evil, of Cause and Effect, and will ‘fall’ over time.One can not wage war,( in the context of Cause and Effect), and not be changed, or hardened from it.  This goes double for ceaseless war.This framework, preserves Absolute and Relative Morality as viable viewpoints and stories within the same campaign, no less.  It is also the cosmological framework in the flavor text portions of Mords’ Tome of Foes.As a thought experiment: are smokers evil by  the rules inherent in the above quoted part?  The question is open to everyone, not just Oofta.Doing something that just makes you feel better, but actively harms those around you, seems to meet the definition of harming others for one’s jollies.Since, no Human, (or other race), is an Island, a person that thinks that smoking is just their choice, is ignoring the rich web of interconnection that IS life.Doing harm to oneself through smoking, for a momentary pleasure, ignores the harm to others, the harm that is caused to others, by weakening your health and hastening your demise.This too, also meets the ‘Jollies’ definition of evil.Note, the above is for Thought Experiments purposes, not a sanctimonious scree against smoking.  Though I am an ex-smoker</blockquote>

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