NKL.Sorcerer

[Doc_Souark]

I thought of something you could add to Technic4's list

-Summon Familiar
-Eschew Materials
-Spell Thematics
-Combat Casting
-Magical Aptitude (+2 Spellcraft and Use Magic Device)
-Persuasive (+2 Bluff and Intimidate)
-Negotiator (+2 Diplomacy and Sense Motive)
-Toughness

............................................................
-Elemental Affinity* The Scorcerer is attuned to a specific chosen element the DC of the chosen element is increased to +2 with an extra +1 every 4 levels OR The scorcerers level is added to damage dice, only one element can be chosen and either the DC increas or the Damage can be chosen at 1st level

Example : A Scorcerer chose at 1st level for the Elemental Affinity(fire) damage increase to so at 8th lvl his Fireball is 8d6+8, if he had chosen for the DC is +4 against his fire attacks

Air..........................Electricity
Fire........................Fire
Earth.....................Acid
Water....................Cold
[????**}..................Sonic

* Yeah I got this idea from the Paladin article in the Dragon

** Plasma maybe, what element corisponds with Sonic ?

OR you could let the Scor. get an extra feat from the list every X levels ie. the meta-magic list for the Wizard.

Am I too munchkinanic on this one ?

 

[Technik4]

Since the NKL version gets bonus spells known

Whoa! Had I noticed that, I surely would have mentioned it. I think that is definitely over the top. One of the few things the base 3e rules do to set wizards and sorcerors apart is create the relationship that a wizard will always know more spells, but be able to cast fewer than the sorceror who knows fewer spells, but can cast them at will and more often.

Granted, Specialist Wizards throw a small wrench in this (but they do it at the cost of their vaunted versatility), as they can nearly match a sorceror in terms of spells/day. It seems to me that your biggest beef is with sorcerors gaining their spells a level behind wizards/clerics/druids. Instead of giving them all kinds of nifty bonuses, why not change the basic structure, allow them to learn 2nd level spells at 3rd level, 3rd level at 5th, and so on? In fact, tying it to their spells known can make it very interesting, for instance:

-1st level-
Learns 6 spells of 0 or 1st level.
Casts 5 (0th), 3 (1st)
-2nd level-
Learns 2 spells
Casts 6 (0th), 4 (1st)
-3rd level-
Learns 2 spells. Can cast 2nd level spells.
Casts 6 (0th), 5 (1st), 3 (2nd)
-4th level-
Learns 2 spells.
Casts 6 (0th), 6 (1st), 4 (2nd)
-5th level-
Learns 2 spells. Can cast 3rd level spells.
Casts 6 (0th), 6 (1st), 5 (2nd), 3 (3rd)

And so forth. Seasong has a valid point in his other thread that despite getting spells from other lists, there is still a finite number of spells known, this is the entire crux of the sorceror. I would strongly suggest anyone making a spontaneous caster to not allow a bonus spells known mechanic, as you are allowing compensation for their greatest weakness.

As far as the HD, I just don't think its fair to wizards. Sorcerors aren't more hardy, they still practice the arcane arts, they just do so through different means. Also, the lack of spellcraft and knowledge (arcana) makes the NKL Sorceror very difficult to play into epic levels (as the spellcasting becomes based on those skills).

The skill points I can concede. After all, wizards through having Int as their main attribute are getting more skill points than sorcerors as it is, plus sorceror is a very flavorful class and skills help bring that out. Also, as you said there is little point to having a bigger skill list if you don't get more skill points/level.

Anyway, good luck with your Alt. class.

Technik

 

[Terath Ninir]

Re: Re: Re: Re: NKL.Sorcerer

Thanks . And I do occasionally post there, but I'm mostly a long-term lurker.

The more the merrier!

Oh, I wasn't saying you should keep the familiar . I just wasn't sure that the sorcerer was being adequately compensated. +1 hp, +2 skill points, and some really weak feats just doesn't seem to quite compare, although it does have the advantage of making PrCs more of a "maybe" than a "well, duh".

I think yours was the only comment that said the class was *weak*.

I might try to throw in some more powers for them to lose at high levels if they go for a PrC. Of course, the wizard could really use that, too. That's why their PrC's are so hard to balance: when there's nothing but a familiar (and a couple of feats, for the wizard) to take away, you can't really give in a balanced way.

Except for Archmage. Archmage with this version of sorcerer would rule even harder than Archmage with the old version of sorcerer.

Yes, well, I won't worry about poorly thought out prestige classes that I wouldn't allow in my campaign. I swear, the only reason they have it is so that they can give Elminster even more power than he already has...

In other words, a cleric can heal as a last ditch thing, and he can do it well. A sorc has to devote a significant portion of his flexibility to healing to achieve the same thing.

Yes! You've said much more simply what I've tried to get across. Yes, this sorcerer can heal a lot, but the cleric still does a better job of it.

And so forth. Seasong has a valid point in his other thread that despite getting spells from other lists, there is still a finite number of spells known, this is the entire crux of the sorceror. I would strongly suggest anyone making a spontaneous caster to not allow a bonus spells known mechanic, as you are allowing compensation for their greatest weakness.

I see where you're coming from, and I can see where it could be an issue in an over the top, max out everything munckin campaign. In more reasonable campaigns, however, it will only add 6 or 8 spells to what the sorcerer knows over his career. Not even as much as a clerical domain.

As far as the HD, I just don't think its fair to wizards. Sorcerors aren't more hardy, they still practice the arcane arts, they just do so through different means. Also, the lack of spellcraft and knowledge (arcana) makes the NKL Sorceror very difficult to play into epic levels (as the spellcasting becomes based on those skills).

I want to differintiate the sorcerer from the wizard as much as possible. Yes, by the game mechanics of 3e, they are the same thing with different casting rules. I would rather they not stay the same, though.

As for the Epic rules -- I don't care if it's compatable. I neither own nor wish to own those rules. I'm not going to have a minor book that isn't OGC interfere with how I develop the alt.sorcerer class.

Anyway, good luck with your Alt. class.

Thank you! We have very, very different takes on things, but it can only be a good thing to hear the counter arguments.