No ASF if proficient in armor or a 'spells in armor' skill?

[Matrix Sorcica]

On a recent thread about the game mechanic problems of multiclassing, someone (don't recall who) said that in his campaign, there was no ASF is you are proficient in the armor in question.
Now, for most arcane spellcasters, this would mean taking a lvl of fighter or similar, thereby getting behind in spellcasting. Secondary, spend a feat.

Does this seem balanced? After all, the arcane casters still suck BAB and HP wise.


Another poster was very unhappy about there being no skill that could offset the penalties for armor. His reasoning being that concentration lets you ignore balancing on a rope in a blowing hurricane while a Balor is swinging at you, but put one little leather jacket on, and you're in trouble.
My suggestion could be a skill that is a core skill for arcane spellusers:

TRANSCEND ARMOR (dex): You can use your skill bonus to reduce the ASF from wearing armor. (maybe make it a normal skill check to see how much you reduce by).

Comments?

 

[Eolin]

precious skill points!

Especially for a sorcerer, there really arn't enough skill points to go around.

How about, the ASF/5 (that whole % to d20 conversion) adds to the difficulty of concentration checks?

 

[Dorloran]

Armored Arcana Feat

In the 3E based computer game Icewind Dale II, there is a feat called Armored Arcana. I was actually kind of surprised it didn't make its way into the 3.5 revision. Here 'tis:

Armored Arcana
You can cast spells with less chance of spell failure.
Prerequisite: The ability to cast arcane spells.
Benefit: Taking this feat reduces the chances of casting failure by 5% that can be applied to a character wearing armor. This feat may be taken up to three times.

 

[Matrix Sorcica]

eh.. a feat for 5% chance. Doesn't seem worth it, IMO.

But maybe a solution could be a ASF reducing feat, just not sure how much it should reduce though.

 

[knifespeaks]

I cannot recall who said it, but I use the same idea myself - I just really preferred the concept from the first edition ftr/m-u who was able to wear armour and cast spells. It makes the multiclass a viable option.

 

[Aaron2]

I cannot recall who said it, but I use the same idea myself - I just really preferred the concept from the first edition ftr/m-u who was able to wear armour and cast spells. It makes the multiclass a viable option.

I agree. I have no problem with wizards wearing armor so I removed ASF completely. However, I also added a series of Greater Mage Armor spells so wizards normally don't need armor in the first place.


Aaron

 

[fuindordm]

On a recent thread about the game mechanic problems of multiclassing, someone (don't recall who) said that in his campaign, there was no ASF is you are proficient in the armor in question.
Now, for most arcane spellcasters, this would mean taking a lvl of fighter or similar, thereby getting behind in spellcasting. Secondary, spend a feat.

Does this seem balanced? After all, the arcane casters still suck BAB and HP wise.


Another poster was very unhappy about there being no skill that could offset the penalties for armor. His reasoning being that concentration lets you ignore balancing on a rope in a blowing hurricane while a Balor is swinging at you, but put one little leather jacket on, and you're in trouble.
My suggestion could be a skill that is a core skill for arcane spellusers:

TRANSCEND ARMOR (dex): You can use your skill bonus to reduce the ASF from wearing armor. (maybe make it a normal skill check to see how much you reduce by).

Comments?

That was me bitching.

I think armored casting would only be unbalanced in a campaign where characters have lots of high ability scores. If you look at the encumberance table, you'll see that you really need a decently high strength to even wear medium armor. If you're building a fighter/mage archetype with high str and int, you deserve to cast spells in armor; it makes up a little for the fact that your spells are a lot less powerful.

If you're a straight mage you probably would rather put that second high score into dex (for ranged touch attacks and AC) or con than amror. A straight mage with a high strength will also have a glass jaw in most campaigns.

If your PCs have 4 high scores, however, so that mages can afford to toss one of them on Str without feeling the pain, then I think there should be a cost associated with wearing armor -- penalties to Concentration rolls or requiring a feat.

Ben

 

[der_kluge]

In my last campaign, there was a house rule that allowed casters to remove ASF for a 1:1 ratio to -ranks- in Concentration. So, if you had 5 ranks in concentration, you could shirk 5 points off the armor's ASF.

You could even do a 2:1 ratio if 1:1 is too much for you.

They still have to take the armor proficiency feat, assuming they don't multi-class to get it.

 

[John Q. Mayhem]

I'd use a 1:2 skills:ASF reduction myself. I like fighter-mages, but I never thought of that...It's a great idea.

 

[Li Shenron]

ASF is one of those sacred cows that D&D never changes and many people horrify to see someone get easy on them

But in most of gaming circumstances, a wizard with armor would not be broken at all. In fact, unarmored wizards gets several other chances of higher AC. However, with the current ruleset it would be a pretty good benefit, because the armor bonus available to arcane casters from spells or magic items is definitely less than the one available from mundane armors, therefore I think dropping ASF completely isn't the best thing to do.

If you allow at best to suffer no ASF only if you are proficient with armors, it's already quite balanced IMO. It's still good, because with multiclassing you can easily get ALL armor & shield proficiencies at once; you still give up 1 level of wiz/sor which isn't good, but the benefit may still be much better.

Maybe having 3 further feats which negates ASF with the armor of a specified type: Light, Medium and Heavy? A single-class wiz/sor would have to pay 2 feats to cast in Light armor with no ASF, 4 feats to cast in Medium armor, and 6 feats in Heavy armor, which definitely isn't a cheap price. The multiclassed eldritch-knight type still has to pay some feat costs.