D&D 5E No Equivalent of Detect/Discern Lies in 5E?

[el-remmen]

I was surprised this morning when I was writing up the description of a magical that was going to have the ability to discern lies at will (with some major drawbacks for the wearer - like they too can't lie while attuned, even if they take off the ring - disadvantage on stealth, etc) and was surprised that aside from zone of truth there is no equivalent spell in the 5E PHB and google did not help me find a version in any other printed source. I am not worried about it, because I can make the magical item do whatever I want - I just wanted to compare to the spell in the book, only to find there isn't one.

I was not around when 5E came out. Was there every any reasoning for this omission of a spell that had been around since 1E? Or am I just failing my investigation check and it exists under a different name somewhere?

 

[Garthanos]

Train the insight skill? I mean that is very close to what it is. That said there is a zone of truth spell.

 

[DemoMonkey]

1) You are correct, the spell does not exist in 5E and 2) I have never seen any reason given for why not.

I could speculate, but that wouldn't be helpful because it won't answer your question.

 

[Jacob Lewis]

Most people already use Insight that way.

 

[Dragonsbane]

Just have your DM add it in, we have added tons of old 3E and Pathfinder spells, nothing broke.

 

[Crimson Longinus]

It's annoying plot-breaking ability and it's a good thing that it doesn't exist.

 

[R_J_K75]

It's annoying plot-breaking ability and it's a good thing that it doesn't exist.

Target gets a saving throw so theres that, any decent DM would never let a single spell to destroy their plot without either having a back up plan or being willing to work with the new broken plot.

 

[jgsugden]

You can add it, but Zone of Truth was put in to serve the need and was limited as it was for a reason.

Bob walks into w room in two different multiverses. In one, Tim of Truth has cast 'Zone of Truth' - that prevents lies. In the other, Tim of Lies has cast 'discern lies' - which identifies lies. In both universes, Tim asks Bob whether Tim's outfit makes Tim look portly. The outfit is designed entirely to make someone look portly.

In Universe 1, Bob attempts to say, "No, you look amazing." The DM says, "You needed to roll a charisma saving throw. Failed? OK, Tim, Bob failed the save. The word "No" catches in your mouth when you try to say it, stopping you from speaking. Do you want to respond differently?"

In Universe 2, Bob says, "No, you look amazing." The DM turns to Tim and says, "Bob lied."

Where do you go in each Universe?

In Universe 1, could Bob repeat the same thing and just drop the word No? Can he say something else that is flattering?

In Universe 2, Tim has no idea what the lie was. Does he look portly? Does he not look amazing? Both?

In my experiences across editions, Zone of Truth is less prone to argument, I believe, and creates more clarity.

 

[Umbran]

any decent DM would never let a single spell to destroy their plot without either having a back up plan or being willing to work with the new broken plot.

"It isn't that the spell causes problems, it is that you suck!" Not such a great way to open a discussion.

How about - a decent game designer leaves out stuff that causes GMs to have to work too much to generate the sort of experience the game is designed to produce.

 

[el-remmen]

I could speculate, but that wouldn't be helpful because it won't answer your question.

I appreciate that.