I keep trying to use them, but the opportunity rarely comes up. Usually, I want to stay in melee with one guy 'till he's DEAD, due to it sucking up a minor action to change my quarry. While Nimble Strike is good, I have a +4 attack with a hand crossbow vs. a +8 with my bastard sword, so I only attack at range if I have no other choice -- and with Athletics +10 and Acrobatics +8, I can usually close to range pretty fast.
No other Ranged Weapon Class, or How I loathe the ranger
- Thread starter Rechan
- Start date
I keep trying to use them, but the opportunity rarely comes up. Usually, I want to stay in melee with one guy 'till he's DEAD, due to it sucking up a minor action to change my quarry. While Nimble Strike is good, I have a +4 attack with a hand crossbow vs. a +8 with my bastard sword, so I only attack at range if I have no other choice -- and with Athletics +10 and Acrobatics +8, I can usually close to range pretty fast.
el-remmen
Moderator Emeritus
When I figured out that you couldn't play a fighter that was a decent archer in 4E (i.e. let that be their main way of fighting) it really turned me off, and that philosophy in the game really led me to not be very enthused about playing it.
I like the idea of roles being how you play your character class(es), not because of the class you pick.
I like the idea of roles being how you play your character class(es), not because of the class you pick.
Even further, the Ranger was initially the "Only guy who could TWF." Then the Tempest Fighter was made, facilitating the option for someone else to use two weapons.
But no class has a ranged weapon build except the Ranger.
Hell, I think there is room for the Warlord being able to do his Warlording from the back ranks. All of his Powers hinge on hitting the enemy in melee, and effecting adjacent allies. A build allowing the Warlord to stand in the back ranks, fire, and command is totally doable.
But no class has a ranged weapon build except the Ranger.
Hell, I think there is room for the Warlord being able to do his Warlording from the back ranks. All of his Powers hinge on hitting the enemy in melee, and effecting adjacent allies. A build allowing the Warlord to stand in the back ranks, fire, and command is totally doable.
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How's this look?
New Rogue Tactic: Sniper
You are a master at striking from the shadows, appearing only long enough to cause your enemes pain and then vanishing once more into the darkness. You may make a Stealth check as a minor action to hide.
A new Encounter Power:
Distracting Strike
Rogue Utility 2
An arrow or knife whizzes by your enemies head, and while he dodges, you duck behind cover.
Encounter * Martial, Weapon
Minor Action * Ranged Weapon
Target: One creature
Attack: Dexterity vs. Will
Hit: No damage, but target is considered distracted with regard to you, and you may shift 1 square.
This is useful to set up more opportunities to use Stealth.
This lets you build a ranged rogue who has an easier time getting CA.
This is all very off-the-cuff and probably unbalanced, but I hope it can inspire some ideas.
New Rogue Tactic: Sniper
You are a master at striking from the shadows, appearing only long enough to cause your enemes pain and then vanishing once more into the darkness. You may make a Stealth check as a minor action to hide.
A new Encounter Power:
Distracting Strike
Rogue Utility 2
An arrow or knife whizzes by your enemies head, and while he dodges, you duck behind cover.
Encounter * Martial, Weapon
Minor Action * Ranged Weapon
Target: One creature
Attack: Dexterity vs. Will
Hit: No damage, but target is considered distracted with regard to you, and you may shift 1 square.
This is useful to set up more opportunities to use Stealth.
This lets you build a ranged rogue who has an easier time getting CA.
This is all very off-the-cuff and probably unbalanced, but I hope it can inspire some ideas.
Oni
First Post
This.
Plus you'll need to use something other than your at will if you want to make use of mobility powers or apply status effects. If the player doesn't feel the need to bother then maybe you need to rough them up a little more.
Kaodi
Legend
If my calculations are correct, the problem is that even in the scenarios that would be most favourable to compare careful attack to twin strike, careful attack will only outperform twin strike by about a 10% margin. Whereas in situations that favour Twin Strike, it vastly outperforms Careful Attack. And given that you never know exactly what you are going to need to hit until you hit it, Twin Strike is twice as good a chance at letting you determine exactly what you need to hit. Once you get magical weapons, with their critical hit bonus dice, it only favours Twin Strike even more.
Well, here's my current breakdown of powers:
Twin Strike
Nimble Strike
Hit And Run
Evasive Strike
Sudden Strike
Ruffling Sting
I rarely WANT to move -- I'm a melee combatant, why do I want to leave melee? The party healer is usually next to me, and I have a mulitclass to Warlord for a quick Inspiring Word now and then. The most I want to do, usually, is set up a flank for the rogue -- so why use Hit and Run when I can shift as a Move action and then Twin Strike?
Sudden Strike is an excellent power, but it's a Daily. Ruffling Sting is a minor action power, so I don't feel I've "wasted" an attack by using it. Yes, most of my Encounter powers have a higher max damage than Twin Strike, but the two chances to hit just make it so much more likely I'll do *something*, combined with the +1d6 'kicked' from Quarry, that my overall damage over the course of an encounter is much higher using Twin Strike -- it's rare I miss with BOTH. (Not unheard of, of course, but rare.)
Oni
First Post
Granted an archery ranger will have more need of staying mobile both to keep themselves out of harms way as well as to apply hunter's quarry to maximize their damage against the best targets. A melee ranger should still have a need to move to either set up flanking opportunities as well as making use of something like evasive strike to get past the main line of defense without getting chewed up, to the soft targets that really need to be taken down first.
If you're not regularly using your encounter powers, perhaps you should select different ones, if you are then I'm not sure how the play experience is really any different from any of the other classes.
If you're not regularly using your encounter powers, perhaps you should select different ones, if you are then I'm not sure how the play experience is really any different from any of the other classes.
You are a melee combatant but you are a squishy one. Moving out of melee forces monsters to move to attack you if they want to take you out. This provokes OA's from your friendly neighbourhood defender, quite possibly stopping the monster in its tracks.
Next round you move back into melee, grabbing CA via flanking and bring the pain. Try dancing around the battlefield a lot, you may find it brings with it surprising benefits.
From a GM's point of view it can be even more frustrating with bow rangers. Sometimes it feels like a Benny Hill episode as I try to pin the shifty bastard into a corner.
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