No PC spell casters but NPCs magical?

[Afrodyte]

Here is something I've been tossing in my head since last night. I would really love to run a game with a heavy fey presence (and have finally purchased the "Faeries" book by Bastion Press). For a change of pace from standard swords and sorcery fare, I'd like this game to focus more on exploration and discovery as opposed to "winning" by defeating a BBEG. I want to have the characters and the players understand that ingenuity, skill, and a bit of luck can get things done just as much as having the right ability at the right time. As for a general atmosphere, I want the characters (and players) to see that the world is larger, deeper, and more complex than it seems from the village/town/city. They should get the feeling that there are forces at work greater than they yet can benefit or oppose them according to their own intent and actions. I want the PCs to be the underdogs who can become victorious if they have the brains and grit to do it.

I especially want to concentrate on the theme of wonder, and magic is a great way to instill wonder in players and characters. However, the way that standard D&D deals with magic makes it seem rather mundane. It's difficult for magic, even high-level magic, to truly evoke awe, even if you go through the trouble of narrating what happens instead of saying, "S/he casts spell X." It seems to me that players tend to approach magic as a tool instead of as a force in itself. Yet, I still (perhaps naively) have hope that this element of wonder can be a part of playing D&D. I am beginning to think, though, that I'll need to use drastic measures to do it. Here are some I've come up with so far.

The first idea I had was to use Aristocrat, Expert, and Warrior NPC classes from the DMG, sans the Adept. With the absence of "nifty cool abilities" to look forward to, it would more or less force players out of depending on class abilities to meet and overcome obstacles. The problem, though, is whether the players would understand what I'm trying to do and not act on the assumption that I'm simply trying to nerf them so I can "beat" them.

The second idea was to disallow the use of spell casting classes. The only problem, though, is that this leaves only the Barbarian, Fighter, Monk, and Rogue as PC classes. Unfortunately, three of them fill essentially the same niche. I could allow the Aristocrat and Expert NPC classes into the fold to provide variety (especially to allow for the sociable and scholarly types, which would prove very useful in a campaign like this). I could also import variants of the classes from other sources (especially Midnight) or come up with less magical variants of my own. The only problem with this is that the players may not be familiar with these sources, and my own efforts may not work out as I conceived.

The third idea I came up with (just now) was to use the D20 Modern classes but use standard D&D rules for everything else. I'm not sure how this would work out, though. It may be more complicated than it seems.

The final idea I have (though not the last I came up with) was to make the PCs low-level and everyone else high-level, but there are a couple of issues I have with this. The first is experience. After a certain point, the characters become too powerful to feel threatened. I could power up the NPCs as the players power up, but that would make the campaign resemble a cold war instead of a contest of wills and wits. The second is skills. I like skills. I like skilled characters. I like the variety of skills open to characters that allows them to refine their role in the party outside of combat. With skills there is always the possibility of failure, and using skills despite that possibility shows a bit of grit (which I like characters to have). In addition, there is also the fact that using skills to make and do things seems to involve the characters more than crossing off a spell you use for the day. I'd rather have PCs craft their own masterwork items or haggle over the price instead of simply shelling out gold pieces for the prices listed in the PHB and DMG.

So, I am looking for answers to the following questions:

1. As a player, which idea (if any) would you prefer and why?
2. As a DM, which idea seems the most feasible?
3. What sorts of compromises do you think are necessary to make this sort of campaign work?
4. Do you have any other ideas on how to make this work?

Note: Although I respect the right to free speech, I humbly request that replies to this post (and the tone of the thread in general) be polite, respectful, and on-topic. Saying, "Playing by D&D rules works just fine," even in jest, does not really help me. So, please respect the time and though I've put into this and be as constructive as you can.

 

[Xeriar]

I'm not sure how closely Swashbuckling Adventures followes the 'feel' of 7th Sea, but that sounds exactly like what you are looking for.

AEG's systems don't keep much of their flavor when converted to d20, in my opinion, but others seem to think more of it. In 7th Sea, magic can evoke that kind of awe as it is meant to (and still allow players access to it).

Come to think of it, I have a lot of systems, but I think 7th Sea is the only one that fits what you say. GURPS and d20 in general have the tendancy to make things 'tools'.

L5R and Shadowrun have great stories and all, but magic - while awesome - remains in the comprehendable.

Fading Suns, Deadlands et al. have no Fey presence, even if their magic was what you were looking for...

So yeah, check out 7th Sea Or maybe Swashbuckling Adventures.

 

[Urbannen]

One way to do this might be to disallow the use of magic for all non-magical races. Then only allow PCs to be members of these races. In other words, humans, dwarves, halflings, and half-orcs cannot use magic or take levels in magic-using classes. PCs can only choose one of those races. Elves, half-elves, and gnomes can cast magic, but they would be NPC races. Additionally, these races live apart from non-magical races. Players could choose from fighter, rogue, aristocrat, expert, or commoner. Put cultural restrictions on the barbarian and monk classes.

BTW, this idea comes from LotR. Some people have called that a low-magic setting. LotR is only a low magic setting because so many of the main characters could not use magic because of their racial heritage. All the characters that could use magic in that book, did. However they were all elves, half-elves, ainur (like Gandalf), or mortals under the influence of magic items created by ainur (the Witch-King). For halflings and normal humans, the use of magic was wondrous.

 

[Afrodyte]

Xeriar> I'm sort of tight on money right now, so purchasing a new book is not exactly on my agenda. Thanks for giving me something to look at, however.

Urbannen> Limiting races seems interesting. Story-wise, I could say that elves and gnomes are fey themselves (thus allowing them to use magic). I'll have to look through the Faeries book again to see how I could explain this, but it doesn't seem like it will be that difficult to be able to use them.

 

[Terwox]

You could do the low-magic fix that only allows spellcasters to level up 1:1 with another class. So instead of having PCs that were casting at high levels, you would instead have wizard10/rogue10. Or whatever.

Or you could try playing with the magic system -- using the magic systems from elements of magic (haven't read it, but it sounds like a shift,) arcana unearthed when it comes out, one of the above-mentioned systems, or the system from mage.

but, you could also just work it along d&d terms, give every caster the signature spell feat for free (or basically, have every effect be customized.) Never actually say the name of a spell, unless someone makes a spellcraft check, and then just pass them a note with the spell on it. (Well, this would get tedious in combat if there's tons of spellcasting, but, if that's not the focus...)

another thing you could do is use the magic from call of cthulhu. that'd work. no memorization, all casting comes from ability drain. but, you could use the suggestion in there -- between games, never call a spell the same thing, and never describe it the same way.

you could rename all the spells, have different wizards (or fey) create them. you can leave the mechanics the same, or virtually the same, and have very different spells. yes, people will realize what's going on if you make them too similar, and everyone will realize that the summoned screaming ballista bolt that turned a corner that just did 3d4+3 came from a 5th level wizard casting magic missile, but, it's something. i dunno. you could have identify summon up a specific homunculus that knows the lore of all the items on the world, but requires a drop of blood for the knowledge, after the 5 hour ritual. you know, that sort of thing.

you may be broke, but you could also at least flip through those sections while you're at a bookstore, and maybe get some quick ideas. g'luck, sounds like fun! i've played games of discovery and all that, but it was changeling, so, yeah. actually the magic system from changeling would work really well too! but, well, I'll shutup now. g'luck!

 

[Voadam]

d20 classes look like they could fit in, but they get a ton of feats (one bonus every other level and a class ability that are like feats for the others) so I don't know that they are less powerful. If you allowed only PC magic as in d20 modern though that would scale things back a bit.

Your best bet is to tell your players the type of campaign you are going to try and run so that they can make characters with that in mind.

Other options are low point buy for a more normal guy type of feel to the pcs.

You could do an interesting campaign where they are all nonmagical NPC classes, experts, aristocrats and warriors are pretty balanced against each other, if you allow normal nonmagical classes there is a real balance power issue (why be an expert when you can be a rogue, why be a warrior when you can be a fighter?).

 

[Geoffrey]

I would use the Aristocrat, Expert, and Warrior classes. This puts everything on a lower-powered level, which sounds like it would suit your idea well. I can't speak to d20 Modern since I'm not familiar with it, but it might be difficult to combine the systems.

BTW, in the recent issue of Dragon that featured George R. R. Martin's fantasy world, it is suggested that the best way to achieve the low-magic feel of this world is to use only the aforementioned three NPC classes. Magic would be very rare and simply by DM fiat. This ensures the retention of a sense of wonder.

 

[AuraSeer]

If you're going to use the NPC classes from the DMG, you might want to glance at the 'Thug' class from Traps & Treachery. Just as the warrior is a lesser version of the fighter, the thug is a lesser version of the rogue. (One difference is that his sneak attacks are measured in d4s.)

 

[Shard O'Glase]

well the 1st thing you should do is talk with your players.

seriously there's nothing worse than building a cool campaign idea, with its nice non standard hook, and having all the players say yuck. I'll suppose we'll give it a shot.

Personally I rarely like settings where magic is outside the hands of players. Unless its done right, it just feels like a giant rail roading tool in disguise.

 

[Afrodyte]

I would use the Aristocrat, Expert, and Warrior classes. This puts everything on a lower-powered level, which sounds like it would suit your idea well....
BTW, in the recent issue of Dragon that featured George R. R. Martin's fantasy world, it is suggested that the best way to achieve the low-magic feel of this world is to use only the aforementioned three NPC classes. Magic would be very rare and simply by DM fiat. This ensures the retention of a sense of wonder.

Yeah, I figured as much. I think I'm going with this idea because it requires the least amount of tweaking and looking to other sources which the players may not have.