No Planes, Small Gods

[Eltern]

So building a new campaign off of the Scourge of the Slave Lords megamodule, and I don't want any of this planes business Sure, I really love the multiverse and Planescape is -awesome-, but in this campaign I don't want the players to even have thoughts about other planes. It's difficult to care about a little slave trade when angels and demons are fighting elsewhere, you know?

Ok, remove all plane shifting spells. That's simple enough. Summon monster spells...we'll just leave their origin an "arcane mystery," because things like that exist. Planar ally isn't going to happen, not going to get that high in level. But these...gods. What do I do about these gods?

I do not want religion to be the motivating force behind the actions of nations, not that big. However, in the past I have left various aspects of the worlds I DM very vague/unimportant, including religion and politics. Politics I feel I'm all over for this one, but I am finding it difficult making a homebrew religious system that's both important and influential in the adventure.

Ideally, I'd like religion to have these aspects:
1. Cloistered clerics, from UA, and prestige paladins. I feel this really affects things.
2. No planes.
3. Religions are not necessarily "certain." It's difficult to get into an argument in Greyhawk about whether Kord or Heironeous is the "right way" because most everyone knows that they both exist and are very, very real. #2 should help this.

Hmmm..I'm finding myself having trouble effectively describing this concept I have in my head. Maybe I'm trying to have religion take the same role it does in real life? Yeah! That might be it! Unfourtanetly, the parrallel isn't perfect, as clerics/priests/etc. don't cast lots of spells in real life. Not that I've noticed, anyway.

Anyway, any thoughts? It looks like maybe a multi-diety system might not work...Hmm, kinda wanted that...

Thanks!
Eltern

 

[Darrin Drader]

If I were creating a world where planes do not exist, I would have the gods inhabit areas of the world itself. The god of the barbarians might live in the center of a great mountain, the god of the sea lies at the depths of the ocean, the god of the skies lives among the clouds. You get the idea.

Make the dogma surrounding a specific god vary depending on where the worshipper is located. Different groups that worship the mountain god might have different ideas about him, including which mountain he actually lives in and what alignment he may be. To complicate matters, all of their divine spells work as long as they claim that god as their deity. This could cause bitter rivalry and hatred between different sects who worship the same god and take their religion too seriously.

Make the gods themselves fairly uncaring and unlikely to participate in worldly matters. Lets face it, gods have prety good lives, no matter what they represent. They have thousands or millions of sentient beings worshipping them, servants catering to their every desire, and all the food, treasure, and other luxuries they could want. They live better than kings and their lifespan is never over. They get to surround themselves with what they want and who they want when they want it. Sounds like a pretty good gig to get, so why would they bother going to war with one another? The church of a particular god may go on a righteous crusade or an unholy bender, but the god itself simply makes a note and either rewards or punishes them in the next life.

 

[Crothian]

In a slightly forgoteen 3.0 book by FFG, Spells and Spellcraft has a great idea for small gods. These are gods that do not have influencs over the whole world but just an area of it depending on a few factors. It might help with defing your gods and since the book has been out for a few years you should bve able to find it either discounted or used for a good price.

 

[Piratecat]

I'll shift this over to House Rules; it's a cool idea. I agree with Darrin about having the gods inhabit part of the world. Even Discworld has Cori Celesti.

 

[Nifft]

One thing I've been thinking of is an alignment-less system of religion that allows animists to have equal validity.

Basically, as you describe, no deity-planes and small gods. (Some planes would remain: Shadow, Ether and/or Astral, Limbo and the Far Realms. I need a place for horrid evil and unspeakable evil to live.)

Animists (including the Spirit Shaman) would break the spirit world into five groups:
- Bright Spirits (angels/fiends/outsiders)
- Dark Spirits (the dead)
- Fair Spirits (the fey)
- Elementals
- Animal Lords (awakened dire animals)

Note that they don't particularly distinguish between angels and devils/demons. Bright Spirits should be pretty darn rare, and should come from places where we can't easily visit. Having all angels and devils/demons secretly be Pseudonaturals or Chthonic Chaos Limbo Lords is certainly a valid interpretation.

Dark Spirits run the range from helpful Hero-Deity and Worshiped Ancestor to the more cliche Shade of Revenge and Lich-Queen.

Fair Spirits are already nicely ambiguous -- they are often playful, even when they're doing good or evil deeds (i.e. helping or hindering your party).

Elementals are usually stand-off-ish, or brutally unimaginative. Djinn and Efreeti are noted exceptions.

Animal Lords I just threw in, based on stuff like Midnight and Princess Mononoke. They seem like they should be in there. Obviously, they're not as interested in human affairs as a Bright Spirit would be, but they are venerated by any who must travel or hunt in their domain.

Anyway, I was going to do a Spirit Shaman variant which specialized in each of these different Spirit types, and one generalist who got a bunch of diplomatic bonuses and immunities.

(That, plus Psionics, was going to be the whole basis for magic in the setting. Nicely ambiguous basis for religion, as spirits seldom agree on anything of import -- execept that humans shouldn't ask so many questions.)

-- N

 

[Eltern]

Thanks for the help so far! I think I forgot to mention that it's all going to be alignment-less, if that matters. That's sort of a staple in D&D for me, now (not have alignments, as opposed to having them). Just hate the black/whiteness of them

Eltern

 

[Li Shenron]

Maybe I'm trying to have religion take the same role it does in real life? Yeah! That might be it! Unfourtanetly, the parrallel isn't perfect, as clerics/priests/etc. don't cast lots of spells in real life. Not that I've noticed, anyway.

I think the only thing it makes you feeling a problem with it is that the PHB says "gods grant spells to clerics", but do you really have to buy that in your setting?

I think it changes nothing (rules-wise) to say that clerics cast spells for the same reason wizards do: they learn it! Afterwards they can go around and say it's god X who gives them these powers, and of course they can believe themselves, it just doesn't matter what's the real truth.

PS Anyway, I think this is not a house rule issue, it was better in the General forum!

 

[Eltern]

PS Anyway, I think this is not a house rule issue, it was better in the General forum!

Me niether, but whatever works