Worlds of Design: How Powerful Are Your Gods?

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Picture couresty of Pixabay.
Gods die. And when they truly die they are unmourned and unremembered.” Neil Gaiman

What Flavor of God?​

Are your fantasy role-playing game gods all-powerful, and are they omniscient (they know everything, which implies they are omnipresent as well)? Monotheistic religions tend to have one deity along these lines, but that's not how many of the ancients thought. The gods of the ancients tended to be something like very powerful humans or like comic book superheroes, in groups (there is also a point of view called monolatry, belief in the existence of many gods but with a consistent worship of only one deity). Here’s a list of characteristics to consider when creating your fantasy pantheon:
  • Extent of their knowledge (which includes, their presence)
  • Limits of their power (if any)
  • On a scale from benign to malign, where are they (See “RPG Gods Benign or Malign”)?
  • On a scale from engaged to aloof, where are they? That is, do the deities meddle in the affairs or mortals (Greek Gods), or do they rarely if ever engage with them (Cthulhu)?
  • What is the relationship with other gods?
  • Nature of worshippers (if no worshippers, can the “gods” truly be gods?)
  • How do they treat their worshippers? Are they merely a a means to an end, or do they love, honor, and care for their worshippers?
  • How do they treat their “spokesmen” (priests)?
  • Are they absolutely immortality (cannot be destroyed). or conditionally immortal (can be killed (with much difficulty) but won’t die naturally) or not immortal at all?
  • Can a god be stuck in one plane of existence, or does the god need to be able to travel to many planes, or perhaps to anyplace within a plane?

Divine Traits​

When you draw the line between gods and not-gods, immortality is the first thing that comes to mind. And yet, J.R.R. Tolkien’s high elves had a form of “conditional” immortality, living until someone killed them. Unusually, Tolkien’s elves continue to exist after they are killed, in a sort of waiting area in Valinor. And in some cases “gods” can die, e.g. Baldur in the Norse mythos. But gods are usually immortal until someone kills them, just like Tolkien’s elves. And their worshippers are necessarily “mortals.”

The second criterion for godhood that comes to mind after immortality is great power. So are all very powerful monsters also gods? Some of these are only conditionally immortal, some may be subject to death by very old age (dragons, in most cases). Is a thousand years close enough to immortal? Or can we not care about immortality if the “monster” is sufficiently powerful?

What about gods as “monsters,” that is, as opposition for adventurers? I don’t let player characters gain godlike powers, so I don’t put them up against godlike opposition. On the other hand, you could say that if a “god” is so wimpy that mortal adventurers can defeat it, it isn’t much of a god (Hulk: “Puny god.")! Some GMs may prefer to have their adventurers fight “gods” sooner or later.

Edge Cases​

This brings to mind my “monster” Elemental Princes of Evil that originally appeared in the Fiend Folio. Are they gods? They’re immortal, perhaps more than conditionally (that is, they respawn if killed). They’re very powerful, such that the only time my player character in a powerful party ran into one of them, we grabbed what we came for and fled post-haste. Do they have worshippers? There’s a tradition in fantasy that “old gods” who no longer have worshippers either fade away, or hang around in obscure ways – as “monsters,” more or less. Or in this case, never had worshippers, so they’re monsters, not gods?

We can also talk about Demigods. These are common in ancient Greek/Roman mythology, the result of a union between god and human, such as Hercules. In most cases they are conditionally immortal, but much less powerful than full gods, resembling comic book superheroes, or demons. So sometimes they’re treated as mortals, sometimes as gods.

Choose Wisely​

Defining your deities and the extent of their influence will have significant repercussions on your campaign: for your divine spellcasters, for your fiendish and celestial monsters, and if the player characters are powerful enough, even as potential foes.

Your Turn: How powerful are the gods in your campaign?
 

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Lewis Pulsipher

Lewis Pulsipher

Dragon, White Dwarf, Fiend Folio
In my worlds, the gods are extremely limited when it comes to interacting with the physical, mortal world. Beyond that, they're often powerful and knowledgeable but not all-powerful or all-knowing. Also, I dislike and avoid the common trope of "gods need prayer badly."

In my old, non-D&D world of Etan, the gods are all dead, but the ghosts of a number of gods remain, along with certain spirits and minor godling types. The different religions of Etan provide different answers to the question "Now what?" with the priests most closely connected to the (ghosts of) the gods having, as their chief power, the ability to invite them to kibitz.

In my D&D-ish worlds where the gods still live, they are handwaved as being big, powerful, and far away on another plane of existence. Their chief interactions are to grant spells to divine spellcasters and to provide the deep magic that enforces various customs and taboos. They are powerful enough that they could easily provide 9th level spells to all of their 1st level clerics - except for the small detail of the 1st level clerics not being able to survive the experience. The clerics would burn out like a 1.5 volt lightbulb connected to a 110 volt power supply. (The point of this is that "amount of worship received" is not the limiting factor on the ability of the gods to grant spells.)

I do have a fantasy setting that I use to write read-only fiction (rather than as a game setting) that's completely without gods, although it does have religions along with people who believe in various gods, demons, etc. of those religions. (Human people. It's also a fantasy setting that I decided to make strictly human-only, with no other sapient races/species.)
 

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In Jewel of the Desert, there are three known primary religious traditions (one of which has a prominent heretical offshoot):

  • The Kahina, druids and shaman, who revere the natural spirits of the material world and of the spirit world.
  • The Safiqi priesthood, clerics and paladins, who revere a distant monotheistic deity, "the One", through many different facets/aspects.
  • The (not yet formally named) religion practiced in far-away Yuxia, the Jade Home, which reveres the August Jade Emperor as the apex of the Celestial Bureaucracy.

Hardliner Safiqi see both of the other traditions as infidels, but the generally more predominant moderate faction views the faith of Yuxia as just a really weird heterodox version of their own faith (identifying the "August Jade Emperor" as a mere cultural variation of the "Great Architect", the most commonly-worshiped aspect of the One.) So-called "orthodox" Kahina view the One as merely the greatest of city-spirits, and thus are pretty dismissive of or even negative toward the hegemonic nature of the Safiqi faith. The much more common, moderate Kahina basically just see it as "sure, I'll do the song and dance to keep you off my back, it doesn't functionally matter for my daily life." It's not clear how general Yuxian faithful would perceive folks in the Tarrakhuna, but I suspect it would be a mirror of the more moderate Safiqi, one of those "you have a really weird way of doing it, but your heart is in the right place" kind of things.

The aforementioned heresy is the Zil al-Ghurab, the "Raven-Shadows," an assassin-cult that started out as, more or less, the internal police/special operations branch of the early Safiqi priesthood. The Safiqi and the Raven-Shadows have been fighting a religious war for nearly two millennia, with the larger and openly-operating Safiqi repeatedly driving the Raven-Shadows nearly extinct, only for them to go to ground, rebuild, and eventually get rediscovered again. Ironcally, the Raven-Shadows don't consider their Safiqi cousins heretical, just limited, unable to see a bigger picture; the Safiqi in general see the Raven-Shadows as an extremely dangerous group, which is true, and one that is totally wrong, which...is at least somewhat in question. It's very likely they've been manipulated by someone, but exactly how and why remains unclear.

The party has met several devils, a few demons, and a couple celestials. The friendlier celestial, a couatl named Tlacalicue (approximately "Daylight-Her-Skirt" in Nahuatl), has expressly said that the One (who almost never communicates directly with mortals) is quite well aware that Their (second-hand) claims of being the creator of all things and the one true god etc. etc. cannot be verified, neither by scientific pursuit nor by magical means. It is not possible to know with absolute certainty. At some point, each sapient individual must decide for themselves what to believe, and the One (allegedly) prefers it that way. Essentially, Tlacalicue has explained that the One (claims to have) created all things, so that sapient beings can exist independently and enrich that creation with their own ideas. This is why the One cares so much about preserving mortal autonomy, since (Their servants claim) it would defeat the purpose of creation itself to take away the freedom to choose. Celestials, devils, and demons all agree that this was the catalyst for the "War in Heaven" which is what caused some celestials to become devils or demons; each faction claims they won, albeit something of a pyrrhic victory for the celestials.

I have worked very hard to ensure that this principle--that each must decide what they believe--holds true throughout the game. Up to this point, no true "gods" have been witnessed in-game, but that doesn't mean there couldn't be any. Most people from the Tarrakhuna (the region where Jewel is set) would not believe a being that claimed to be a god. Those who follow the old ways of the Kahina would scoff at the idea that any spirit has become so full of itself that it would claim such a ridiculous thing. Those who follow the Safiqi tradition would deny the existence of any god except the One. And then the few (but quite real) agnostic/atheist folks in the region would simply disbelieve that any powerful being is "actually" a god (such beliefs are somewhat more common amongst the Waziri mage order, the wizards and artificers, but still a minority overall.)

Answering the bullet-point list for the One (the only deity-like figure "encountered" thus far):
  • Extent of their knowledge: Claims omniscience and omnipresence. No evidence this is false, but only equivocal evidence that it is true.
  • Limits of their power: Unknown. Faith claims They have none, but self-limits because of Their goals.
  • Benign, malign, between?: Benign. Claims to wish to see all sapient beings flourish.
  • Engaged, aloof, between?: 99.999% aloof. Celestials left the world long ago. The One almost never directly intervenes.
  • Relationship with other gods: None. Claims to be the one and only true deity. Pretender deities are met with skepticism.
  • Nature of worshippers: Extensively worshipped across the Tarrakhuna region where faith was founded ~2K years ago by angels teaching mortals (before leaving).
  • Treatment of worshippers: Priests are highly active in charitable work, public health, basic education, etc. An internal police faction hunts down treacherous priests who abuse their powers.
  • Treatment of priests: Very limited interaction. Rare visions, miraculous effects, etc. A few saints have claimed closer links. Whether this is true or not is a matter of belief.
  • Immortality level: Absolute existence. The One is that which cannot not exist, so the very notion of death or even injury is senseless, if Their claims are true.
  • Locality: Claimed to be infinite in extent and awareness, present in every part of reality simultaneously, including Hell.
 
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I just posted the following Table in the GOD RULES thread. Direct Divine Intervention by Immortals upon the mortal plane is outlawed except in extreme circumstances (eg. some Alien Entity shows up to gobble the planet), though a Demigod can have their Divine Realm upon a mortal world (such as IUZ in Greyhawk) and 'get away with it' so to speak. But typically Demigods and above will send Avatars (2 ranks lower) or Aspects (4 ranks lower) when interacting with mortals.

Divine Ranks 1 (Hero-deity) & 2 (Quasi-deity) can freely act on the mortal plane.

GOD RULES God Tiers Gold.jpg
 

It really depends on my setting. My Theros gods were emotional deities, while my wild Ixalan gods are often little more than worshipped wild animals.
 

Since a very long time, I don't bother anymore doing worldbuilding stuff that nobody cares about except the worldbuilder themselves, and I have much better things to spend time on, if I want to improve my games.

I largely let deities stay undefined until something comes up within the game, including players wanting to play Clerics, and even then nothing ever gets unequivocally defined, it is always ultimately a mistery.

Nevertheless, I do have some "preferences" I typically gravitate around:

  • Extent of their knowledge (which includes, their presence)
If you mean what the fantasy world inhabitants know about deities, it's practically nothing, although they probably believe they know a lot.

  • Limits of their power (if any)
Definitely not all-powerful but must be clearly beyond anything doable by both mortals and non-divine immortals.
Whole spectrum covered.
  • On a scale from engaged to aloof, where are they? That is, do the deities meddle in the affairs or mortals (Greek Gods), or do they rarely if ever engage with them (Cthulhu)?
Depends on the deity.
  • What is the relationship with other gods?
At least as complicated as all social relationship.
  • Nature of worshippers (if no worshippers, can the “gods” truly be gods?)
Yes.
  • How do they treat their worshippers? Are they merely a a means to an end, or do they love, honor, and care for their worshippers?
Depends on the deity.
  • How do they treat their “spokesmen” (priests)?
Depends on the deity.
  • Are they absolutely immortality (cannot be destroyed). or conditionally immortal (can be killed (with much difficulty) but won’t die naturally) or not immortal at all?
Immortals for practical purposes.
  • Can a god be stuck in one plane of existence, or does the god need to be able to travel to many planes, or perhaps to anyplace within a plane?

Any of these is possible if it makes for a good story.
 

The other option I like is how Primeval Thule does it. The gods are distant. There is zero interaction. Clergy are cabalistic - teaching new clerics how to do divine magic, more or less wizards with a better organization.

This makes things like heresy and internal conflict writhing faiths a major element. It’s not like clerics can ask the gods what they mean. Even celestials have no direct contact with the divine. Faith becomes a much bigger issue rather than belief.
This is the way I've always done gods, at least after I got over my Dragonlance phase. I really loved the way Thule put it all together, and the section on the development of different kinds of magic is the kind of thing that all campaign settings should address.
 

My gods are anything that has worshippers. Some of them are also powerful entities, and represent a wide range of power, from cosmic horror levels down to mid-level encounters. All of them are potentially killable.
 

My general Klassico and Six Kingdoms use the same concepts on gods.


Extent of their knowledge (which includes, their presence)
Gods ever present in their domain or portfolio only.

The God of the Sea sees all in the sea and can appear anywhere in the sea.
The Gore of Lore knows all knowledge that isn't secret or lost knowledge.

Limits of their power (if any)
There limits are the other domains and portfolios.

The God of Lord and Knowledge cannot know secrets as that is the realm of the God of Secrets or God of the hidden.

On a scale from engaged to aloof, where are they? That is, do the deities meddle in the affairs or mortals (Greek Gods), or do they rarely if ever engage with them (Cthulhu)?
Gods are forced to meddle in their domain. Anything else is optional.


Nature of worshippers (if no worshippers, can the “gods” truly be gods?)
The gods control their domains and portfolios of domains. Those without worshippers risk having their domains stolen.

Are they absolutely immortality (cannot be destroyed). or conditionally immortal (can be killed (with much difficulty) but won’t die naturally) or not immortal at all?
There are ways to kill a god. There are graves of gods who formerly held domains. The process is not easy.


Can a god be stuck in one plane of existence, or does the god need to be able to travel to many planes, or perhaps to anyplace within a plane?
A god's existence is tied to their domain and where it exists.
 



What Flavor of God?​

Are your fantasy role-playing game gods all-powerful, and are they omniscient (they know everything, which implies they are omnipresent as well)? Monotheistic religions tend to have one deity along these lines, but that's not how many of the ancients thought. The gods of the ancients tended to be something like very powerful humans or like comic book superheroes, in groups (there is also a point of view called monolatry, belief in the existence of many gods but with a consistent worship of only one deity). Here’s a list of characteristics to consider when creating your fantasy pantheon:
  • Extent of their knowledge (which includes, their presence)
  • Limits of their power (if any)
  • On a scale from benign to malign, where are they (See “RPG Gods Benign or Malign”)?
  • On a scale from engaged to aloof, where are they? That is, do the deities meddle in the affairs or mortals (Greek Gods), or do they rarely if ever engage with them (Cthulhu)?
  • What is the relationship with other gods?
  • Nature of worshippers (if no worshippers, can the “gods” truly be gods?)
  • How do they treat their worshippers? Are they merely a a means to an end, or do they love, honor, and care for their worshippers?
  • How do they treat their “spokesmen” (priests)?
  • Are they absolutely immortality (cannot be destroyed). or conditionally immortal (can be killed (with much difficulty) but won’t die naturally) or not immortal at all?
  • Can a god be stuck in one plane of existence, or does the god need to be able to travel to many planes, or perhaps to anyplace within a plane?

Divine Traits​

When you draw the line between gods and not-gods, immortality is the first thing that comes to mind. And yet, J.R.R. Tolkien’s high elves had a form of “conditional” immortality, living until someone killed them. Unusually, Tolkien’s elves continue to exist after they are killed, in a sort of waiting area in Valinor. And in some cases “gods” can die, e.g. Baldur in the Norse mythos. But gods are usually immortal until someone kills them, just like Tolkien’s elves. And their worshippers are necessarily “mortals.”

The second criterion for godhood that comes to mind after immortality is great power. So are all very powerful monsters also gods? Some of these are only conditionally immortal, some may be subject to death by very old age (dragons, in most cases). Is a thousand years close enough to immortal? Or can we not care about immortality if the “monster” is sufficiently powerful?

What about gods as “monsters,” that is, as opposition for adventurers? I don’t let player characters gain godlike powers, so I don’t put them up against godlike opposition. On the other hand, you could say that if a “god” is so wimpy that mortal adventurers can defeat it, it isn’t much of a god (Hulk: “Puny god.")! Some GMs may prefer to have their adventurers fight “gods” sooner or later.

Edge Cases​

This brings to mind my “monster” Elemental Princes of Evil that originally appeared in the Fiend Folio. Are they gods? They’re immortal, perhaps more than conditionally (that is, they respawn if killed). They’re very powerful, such that the only time my player character in a powerful party ran into one of them, we grabbed what we came for and fled post-haste. Do they have worshippers? There’s a tradition in fantasy that “old gods” who no longer have worshippers either fade away, or hang around in obscure ways – as “monsters,” more or less. Or in this case, never had worshippers, so they’re monsters, not gods?

We can also talk about Demigods. These are common in ancient Greek/Roman mythology, the result of a union between god and human, such as Hercules. In most cases they are conditionally immortal, but much less powerful than full gods, resembling comic book superheroes, or demons. So sometimes they’re treated as mortals, sometimes as gods.

Choose Wisely​

Defining your deities and the extent of their influence will have significant repercussions on your campaign: for your divine spellcasters, for your fiendish and celestial monsters, and if the player characters are powerful enough, even as potential foes.

Your Turn: How powerful are the gods in your campaign?
Depends on the God. Omniscient nope that would be freaking boring. But my gods are all powerful in their particular sphere. For instance anyone want to ressurrect someone, your character or your god has to deal with the god of death to simply cast a ressurection spell because it's his domain. Some gods who are enemies of other gods are completely cut off from the sphere that thier enemy controls. become the enemy of the elemental lords of fire. Fire simply isn't allowed to you. Now that does mean the gods have to deal with each other if they want balanced access to all the magic for their religions. But some gods are just the demigod son of some random god and no more powerful than say a 15th level character. It pretty much goes from that up to probable instant death if you don't have the right allies and decide to mess with say the God of War. But I do think gods work far better when they have specialties and have to deal with each other if they want access to magic they don't innately have.
 

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