James Gasik
We don't talk about Pun-Pun
That begs another question though. How does anyone know what alignment a God has?*
*Some of you old school players are likely screaming an answer at the screen. Bear with me a moment.
Alignment is a game mechanic. Sure, it defines the multiverse, but it's not like anyone really knows what their alignment is, right? People don't have "CHAOTIC GOOD" tattooed on their foreheads, do they?**
**Yes, I know, I know. There are means to detect alignment. But not everyone is a spellcaster or Paladin, and I find it hard to believe that someone is going around scanning the faithful with Know Alignment before letting them in the church.
Now, obviously, if you are a Cleric, and you fail to match the required alignment, your God (or more likely, his servants, like Solars, as he's a bit busy) isn't going to grant you spells beyond 2nd level***.
***Because, as we know, 1st and 2nd level spells are powered by faith alone- a Cleric can get these spells even when his deity has no access to the plane/crystal sphere he (or she) is currently at. As my old school DM would say, "you could worship a rock, and if you believe hard enough, you could get low level spells".
Presumably the process by which spells are granted lets the granter know if you meet the requirements or not (something something Ur-Priest...if you know, you know). Ok, fine. But what about people who don't have supernatural ability to detect alignments?
The local priest could be a lay worshipper. How could he weed out bad apples in the congregation? Without evidence- he really can't. But more to the point, how does one know their own alignment? In Dragonlance, I remember there were these nifty trackers for PC alignment, where the DM could keep track of various infractions, at one day you can be informed that "hey, your alignment has changed". Now thank Gygax, the player will know this has happened when the DM dings their xp total, but no stated knowledge is given to the character. Perhaps the xp loss is the result of an existential crisis- but we're not really told. Perhaps the Level Drain fairy shows up one night while you sleep to penalize you for your misdeeds!
Levity aside, a faith might espouse certain virtues, and one could expect the followers of that divine/philosophy/force to fall in line with such- but in the real world, many people pay lip service to religions. Quite a few say they are faithful, but don't know or even follow the tenets of that faith.
Imagine a nation with a state religion- everyone is brought up in the faith, whether they believe or not. What about those with radical or liberal interpretations of the faith?
What happens when Fantasy Martin Luther nails his theses to the wall of a temple saying that the godly men are doing it wrong? Or heaven forbid, a 30-something carpenter from the sticks starts preaching at the steps of a temple, saying they got the straight dope from on high?
There used to be this fun little theory on the old Wizards forums about how people got it wrong, Pelor isn't the good sun god everyone thinks he is, but is in fact, The Burning Hate. In the Forgotten Realms, deities have, canonically, passed themselves off as other deities to steal their faithful- Asmodeus has done it, Cyric has done it, perhaps there are others. And presumably the priests of Azuth or Lira (possibly Waukeen as well?) were totally getting spells from the wrong divine!
So this idea that "yeah, well, to worship God X, you have to be Y alignment" doesn't really make a lot of sense. It makes a little more sense for divine spellcasters, but only to a point (see possible examples above).
(Oh in case you were wondering about my first question- in 1e, there was this fun thing called Alignment Languages that allowed people of the same alignment to recognize one another. However, if you serve a Neutral Good god, and you yourself are Neutral Good, but your god is perfectly ok with Lawful Good worshipers, there's no way you'd recognize Lawful Good, because you're not supposed to know the "Lawful Good" alignment language, so...yeah.)
*Some of you old school players are likely screaming an answer at the screen. Bear with me a moment.
Alignment is a game mechanic. Sure, it defines the multiverse, but it's not like anyone really knows what their alignment is, right? People don't have "CHAOTIC GOOD" tattooed on their foreheads, do they?**
**Yes, I know, I know. There are means to detect alignment. But not everyone is a spellcaster or Paladin, and I find it hard to believe that someone is going around scanning the faithful with Know Alignment before letting them in the church.
Now, obviously, if you are a Cleric, and you fail to match the required alignment, your God (or more likely, his servants, like Solars, as he's a bit busy) isn't going to grant you spells beyond 2nd level***.
***Because, as we know, 1st and 2nd level spells are powered by faith alone- a Cleric can get these spells even when his deity has no access to the plane/crystal sphere he (or she) is currently at. As my old school DM would say, "you could worship a rock, and if you believe hard enough, you could get low level spells".
Presumably the process by which spells are granted lets the granter know if you meet the requirements or not (something something Ur-Priest...if you know, you know). Ok, fine. But what about people who don't have supernatural ability to detect alignments?
The local priest could be a lay worshipper. How could he weed out bad apples in the congregation? Without evidence- he really can't. But more to the point, how does one know their own alignment? In Dragonlance, I remember there were these nifty trackers for PC alignment, where the DM could keep track of various infractions, at one day you can be informed that "hey, your alignment has changed". Now thank Gygax, the player will know this has happened when the DM dings their xp total, but no stated knowledge is given to the character. Perhaps the xp loss is the result of an existential crisis- but we're not really told. Perhaps the Level Drain fairy shows up one night while you sleep to penalize you for your misdeeds!
Levity aside, a faith might espouse certain virtues, and one could expect the followers of that divine/philosophy/force to fall in line with such- but in the real world, many people pay lip service to religions. Quite a few say they are faithful, but don't know or even follow the tenets of that faith.
Imagine a nation with a state religion- everyone is brought up in the faith, whether they believe or not. What about those with radical or liberal interpretations of the faith?
What happens when Fantasy Martin Luther nails his theses to the wall of a temple saying that the godly men are doing it wrong? Or heaven forbid, a 30-something carpenter from the sticks starts preaching at the steps of a temple, saying they got the straight dope from on high?
There used to be this fun little theory on the old Wizards forums about how people got it wrong, Pelor isn't the good sun god everyone thinks he is, but is in fact, The Burning Hate. In the Forgotten Realms, deities have, canonically, passed themselves off as other deities to steal their faithful- Asmodeus has done it, Cyric has done it, perhaps there are others. And presumably the priests of Azuth or Lira (possibly Waukeen as well?) were totally getting spells from the wrong divine!
So this idea that "yeah, well, to worship God X, you have to be Y alignment" doesn't really make a lot of sense. It makes a little more sense for divine spellcasters, but only to a point (see possible examples above).
(Oh in case you were wondering about my first question- in 1e, there was this fun thing called Alignment Languages that allowed people of the same alignment to recognize one another. However, if you serve a Neutral Good god, and you yourself are Neutral Good, but your god is perfectly ok with Lawful Good worshipers, there's no way you'd recognize Lawful Good, because you're not supposed to know the "Lawful Good" alignment language, so...yeah.)
