No Prestige classes allowed

[Hussar]

1. That's copyright infringement, in all likelihood, and hence illegal.

2. Very often (not always, but often enough) prestige classes in supplements deal with other rules also in those supplements (Imagine trying to pull in a PrC related to a new magic system without the rest of those rules). That requires a lot more rules to be copied (see 1).

That notwithstanding, very often the rest of the supplement will have other tidbits that balance that PrC that may not be directly mentioned in the PrC (ie, opposing classes), or flavour details that speak to how the class relates to the campaign world at large. Sure, you could copy these as well (See 1), but as a DM who doesn't own the book, how do I know you got all of the relevant pieces? This isn't just a "I don't trust my players to not cheat" - I've played a plot of games with my friends, and sometimes we just accidentally overlook things - having the actual book in front of me (not just borrowing it) gives me time to read it thoroughly so I understand all of the implications.

While it very well might be copyright infringement, I highly suspect that photocopies for personal use in game aren't going to raise too many hackles. The vast majority of PrC's out there can be copied onto two or three pages and you're done. At the absolute outside, ten pages.

PrC's that have rules spread throughout a book are pretty rare beasts, unless you are using PrC's from something like Tome of Magic where the PrC is based on a non-core class to start.

My rule for my World's Largest Dungeon campaign is that any player who wants to use a non-core PrC or class or whatever in the game has to type it up and post it to the hidden password protected site we use for just such a reason. If anyone wants to get uppity about that they're welcome to, but, so far, no one has said too much. Despite the fact that I own none of the books that these are from, we have a pious templar, a Dungeon Delver, a Knight and a Favoured Soul. In the past we have also had ninjas and war wizards as well.

So far it has caused exactly zero problems.

 

[el-remmen]

Prestige classes are more a tool for the DM, not the player (that is why they are found in the DMG )

They are a goody to offer up in the story of the campaign, a way to present the abilities of an organization or cultural tradition.

In my game while requirements are listed for PrC, they are just a guideline - as DM, I decide when I want to introduce the possibility of one or more PrCs based on the actions in the campaign and the players can decide whether they want to take them or not.

So far no one has taken one, but I have only run one long term 3E game and it never seemed appropriate.

 

[reanjr]

I've played in and ran many games where the only prestige classes allowed were campaign specific ones (none of the ones out of books uness specifically tailored for the campaign by the DM). Generally I think prestige classes should only be used for organizations and special training that stems from role-playing and not just to add game features.

On the other hand, I am a big fan of new 20-level classes and usually allow most of those unless they clash too much with the campaign.

 

[Felon]

Prestige classes are more a tool for the DM, not the player (that is why they are found in the DMG )

They are a goody to offer up in the story of the campaign, a way to present the abilities of an organization or cultural tradition.

Well, sort of...The organizations and cultural traditions aren't really what's important in a campaign. It's the mutual enjoyment of everyone at the table that's the big deal, and if a prestige class gets a player invested in my campaign then that's one good reason to consider allowing it.

Still not sure why folks think prestige classes absolutely have to be attached to some institution. It can just be another to make a character special. I don't think a class dragon disciple is intended to represent a fraternity of characters. What's the big deal with a PC being the first one?

 

[Felon]

No, I don't think you have to be part of a circus or some such to be a thief-acrobat or a cabalish whipmaster to be a lasher. That siad, I think the idea behind theif-acrobat and lashers are dull for prestige classes - they could be handled much better with feats.

I've seen some books with prestige classes for Midshipman and the like. That's not a prestige class - at best, that's a feat that gives some bonuses to sailing. On the other hand, being named First Mate of the Redstorm Pirates is a significant achievement, likely due not only to your skills (skills and feat requirements), but also due to who you know (special requirements such as belonging to the Redstorm Pirates).

It's been said on many an occasion by WotC designers that folks shouldn't read too much into the word "prestige". Think of lashers and acrobats as "specialist" classes.

 

[Isida Kep'Tukari]

Me, I like prestige classes. I even write them sometimes in my spare time. But what was the first character that came to mind when I participated in a 30th-level Play-by-post? Druid, straight up.

I find prestige classes are more fun when you can either come into them naturally through the course of an adventure, or have strong RP reasons for building one into a higher-level character. If prestige classes were banned from a campaign I would just shrug and make the best single-classes character I could. I'll agree that prestige classes certainly aren't necessary, but they sure are fun.

 

[Ranger REG]

Does anyone play in / run a game where Prestige classes are not allowed?

How has that worked out?

You mean no prestige class is allowed but optional character classes are?

 

[pawsplay]

The last time I played in a game, PrCs were NPC only. We went up level 8 or so. It was fine.

IMC, players rarely opt for them. We had one Combat Medic, but he just died and he's switching to some shapeshifting monstrosity of a druid. We have a straight up wizard, straight up scout, a fighter who has dipped into scout, a dead barbarian, and a dead shugenja/combat medic. I think the fighter/scout has his eye on highland stalker and dervish. I don't have a problem incorporating a dwarven axe-wielding maniac into my campaign.

 

[Cor Azer]

While it very well might be copyright infringement, I highly suspect that photocopies for personal use in game aren't going to raise too many hackles.

If that works for you. I'm not going o get into that debate here though - there've been plenty of copyright infringement threads over the years.

It's been said on many an occasion by WotC designers that folks shouldn't read too much into the word "prestige". Think of lashers and acrobats as "specialist" classes.

To my mind, that speaks more to WotC changing directions on what they want prestige classes to be. Which makes sense, since many supplements introduce new prestige classes as a marketing tool. Some (in my opinion) are very flavourful, others are quite bland.

I just don't fully understand why someone would want a specialist class without flavour. For instance, why would all lashers be the same if not part of some organization? Wouldn't it be better to have those lasher abilities as a feat chain of some sort, so that there is some difference between the fighter who specializes in whips and the rogue who does so? Suppose a primary spellcaster wants to use a whip as his weapon of choice - if the lasher stuff is done as feats, he doesn't impede his spellcasting, but as a prestige class he has to make significant concessions just to be a bit different.

 

[Quartz]

It seems to me that Prestige Classes really only come in to their own at medium-high levels (10+, more like 15+). And many people don't like playing at high levels. This can lead to front-loading, which makes the DM look askance at the class.