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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Gabester" data-source="post: 3365933" data-attributes="member: 50130">Well that at least pinpoints our central point of disagreement.  I'm not the least bit interested in archetypes and I don't think that they are required for getting people to roleplay.  I think they are required for getting people to roleplay in predictable/archetypical ways.  And I think your players will thank you if you let them have a bit more freedom just to express their own, non-archetypical characters.A level 15 paladin knows how to roleplay easily because it tells him exactly wat alignment he has to be and what he has to do and he can just rely on the vanilla descripter in the player's handbook.  Sure, fine, ok.  And yes, a halfling rogue with a few levels of sorceror to get some spells like feather fall and a familiar has no predefined roleplay role.  But, in the case of that character, he had a great backstory about a family that had been haunted by cats for several generations.  And in the end, he was a far, far stronger character than any single-classed "archetype".Except he couldn't be.  He couldn't take a second class as rogue, for example, because he started as a rogue (because otherwise his skills would have been screwed and in fact they shouldn't be because he is really just a rogue with a splash of sorceror).  Also he was a halfling which is a bit of a problem.  And sure, he could multi-class according to old rules, but no, that doesn't make sense either because he doesn't want to cast high level spells some day.  He just wants be a rogue who just happens to have a few "talents" and a strange cat that follows him around and 3.x lets him do that....3.x gives you a lot of flexibility. It's up to you as a DM to use that and to let your players use it.  I think that's fundamentally where your fix is going to be.  Why doesn't simply telling players that they have to get approval for any multiclassing in advance solve all your problems?  You're the DM, you can do things like that.Getting rid of that flexibility and replacing it with an inherently nonsensical system seems like a lousy idea.  Please, please, please tell me why non-human characters have to dual class in a completely different way than humans?  Please, please, please tell me why I have to forget completely about my fighting skills while learning to be a mage until I match levels?It doesn't.  Make.  Sense.  And your player's won't thank you for it given that there's a clearly superior system available now.If the flexibility of the 3.x system is too much for you to personally handle then I suggest you just talk to your players and tell them what you have in mind.  If they can't roleplay well unless they are given a purely archetypical character then ... well ... I think you have bigger problems than 3.x.</blockquote>

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