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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Gabester" data-source="post: 3378518" data-attributes="member: 50130">By the way you are wrong about the saving throws.  Add it up and you'll see.  Over the course of their careers the worst saving throw progressions still grant 1.5 points per level on average which is only slightly below the +2 they get at first level.  If you add up the saves from all the base classes you'll get a nice fort save but about the same will/reflex saves that you'd have as a straight monk.  Oh yeah, and all your other abilitities WILL BE TOTAL CRAP.  Your BAB will be +4 and you won't be able to cast any spells over 1st level.Anyway, so basically you are psychoanalysing your players and dubbing them unworthy of expressing anything other than core classes.Except you just said that, for example, paladins are fine because they have builtin roleplay mechanics and it's unclear why you can't add these for anyone who wants to join a new class.  You seem to think that all these elite organizations and professions have absolutely no entrance requirements.  Why?And you can always just say "no".  That's what you are doing now.  You are saying, "no", you can't do anything interesting with multiclassing, you can only use these crappy rules that everyone hated from 2e.  You seem to think that saying "no" to something after the campaign has started is a cardinal sin.  If a player asks you for a holy avenger +5 at level 1 do you say yes?  If they ask if they can take 10 while falling off a cliff do you say yes?  If they ask you if they can make a listen check to hear something 10 miles a way do you say yes?Etc.Roleplay can ONLY be taught.  Not forced through rules.  I don't care how much you've psychoanalyzed your players, throwing rules at them to fix their powergaming tendencies will never get you anywhere.  Powergamers WERE just as common in 2e.  They just powergamed with a different set of rules.</blockquote>

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