No secrets can be kept due to Consult Oracle?

[hailstop]

Is it just me, or does the Consult Oracle ritual basically make it impossible to keep any secrets once anyone can cast the dang ritual?

All it requires is one person, alive or dead, to have known the answer to the question.

Like (warning, Eberron spoiler)

[sblock]

Is King Kaiuss III a vampire?

or

Who killed our patron?

[/sblock]

 

[keterys]

Looks like. Costs 3600 and an hour per use, and I'd imagine there are probably some ways to protect against it in a ritual-ish fashion (like the old Nondetection, Mind Blank, etc type thing) but largely, yep, just works.

 

[Mentat55]

You need to ask the right question. And to me, the way the ritual is described, the oracle is basically a third-party observer -- "it has a limited ability to judge what it sees". So illusions, disguises, and the like can conceal the truth.

In your first example, you would need to know to ask that question. And that already suggests a certain amount of knowledge.

In your second example, your answer as DM can be whatever makes the game and story more interesting. It could be somewhat cryptic, somewhat vague, or very detailed.

And frankly, solving whodunit mysteries at level 16 should be pretty straightforward, if you have access to rituals. What to do about it...well, that becomes the interesting part.

EDIT: Let me add that, even if a specific ritual does not exist, rituals for expunging something from the collective memory of these "oracles" or somehow warding against these sorts of divinations should exist. And as a DM, I would just say they exist. But only for really important things, like, "What is the name of the imprisoned god or primordial in Carceri?" Not to cover up mundane crimes.

 

[lukelightning]

In my experience, divinations are useless. The DM will only give out the information he wants to... so the only time divinations are useful is when they are a plot device to send you on your way to an adventure.

 

[keterys]

Does your DM just deny access to the rituals, or do you buy the ritual, spend the component, take the time, and the oracle goes 'Dunno'?

 

[hailstop]

EDIT: Let me add that, even if a specific ritual does not exist, rituals for expunging something from the collective memory of these "oracles" or somehow warding against these sorts of divinations should exist. And as a DM, I would just say they exist. But only for really important things, like, "What is the name of the imprisoned god or primordial in Carceri?" Not to cover up mundane crimes.

This was kinda my thinking too. I don't want to completely nerf the Ritual, but don't want the PCs to learn the Big Secret too early.

 

[amerigoV]

For higher level campaigns, you have to assume the group has access to strong divination and will use it to "solve" the mystery (see Monte Cook's Demon God's Fane for a great 3.x example of this approach). Keeping this in mind helps one craft the adventure so the PCs get to use divinaton, fly, teleport, <insert any other spell/ritual the can screw an adventure> instead of the DM fighting to rein them in. In reality, they are screwed if they do NOT take advantage of these types of resources.

In this case, the "mystery" is collecting enough information to ask the right question.

 

[surfarcher]

It's reasonable to assume that the smart, powerful enemy operating behind the scenes at these levels will have access to "anti-scrying" rituals. I mean do you really think they got to this level of operation when any force of authority could simply have had their friendly neighbourhood wizard scry?

No, of course not.

And then there are orders of removal...

An example of how this might play out...
"Who murder xxx?"
"Why it was yyy"
"Damn, yyy is just someone's minion"
Step forward another hour and another 3600gp...
"Who had yyy murder xxx"
"A cowelled figure who paid yyy in gold"
Step forward another hour and another 3600gp...
"Who was the cowelled figure who paid yyy to kill xxx?"
"I know the answer to this... But a grey fog prevents me from recalling it"

 

[hailstop]

"Who was the cowelled figure who paid yyy to kill xxx?"
"I know the answer to this... But a grey fog prevents me from recalling it"

Perfect.

 

[surfarcher]

TY

I think letting the PCs know that their scrying is being blocked is both fair and useful. I dont like "I don't know" as an answer. I want them to know that other powers are at work in the world