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Message: <blockquote data-quote="surfarcher" data-source="post: 5012577" data-attributes="member: 84774">Charmed, I'm sure.It doesn't feel that way to me. I don't give any special advance attention to it... I did think the whole scrying thing through a couple years ago because scrying is important to how I see my shared fantasy world functioning. And it was immediately evident to me that warding against scrying would be important. That the absence of this simply rendered the comsmology internally inconsistent. Any number of fantasy worlds in novels, etc amply illustrate this too. Maybe if I was writing adventures to make publically available then I might have to do that. But I don't so I don't. <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f642.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":)" title="Smile    :)"  data-smilie="1"data-shortname=":)" />Who stops the PCs from using their rituals? I like when they use their rituals. That doesn't automatically mean they can break plot when their opponent would have covered his tracks. If it's likely the mastermind in my story would cover his tracks and he has access to strong rituals it would be unrealistic for him not to ward certain information against scrying.And just because one or two key facts are warded doesn't render scrying ineffective. Hey if you want to nerf or mod your game more power to you! You won't hear any complaints from me, in fact I'll follow how you approach it and the results with great interest. I'm interesting in such things. No IMO the point is that there already is a solution. In RAW. And one that works just fine for me. I simply don't see a problem. If you fancy a different approach I won't talk down to you or be rude to you. I'll follow and politely ask questions, honestly hoping it works well and provides a good alternative to anyone interested.But I do have to ask. Have you actually had a problem with this? Can we hear from someone who has? Because it's clear to me that it was never intended to be used this way and the core material itself is quite clear that it's not supposed to be used that way...It's a pity they didn't make that one a bit more obvious and flesh it out some more.IMVHO it is written that way (for example see DMG quote above). It's also written to be flexible and allow for deeper and more varied use than that. And hours of thought? I thought of five major factors in about 30 seconds. And there are others. For example an oracle's answers can be pretty damned obscure and difficult to interpret - as per the ancient oracles. So even when you ask the exact right question it can be hard to understand the answer until mach later in the plot. And asking the right question? That's a whole interesting subject in it's own right.In fact elements of this remind me of how we handled wishes in red box/1e days. It was a great game figuring out how to sabotage wishes. <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f600.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":D" title="Big grin    :D"  data-smilie="8"data-shortname=":D" /> It was fun enough that we used to make a game of it outside D&D.Even though it can be like that it doesn't need to be. If your plot is susceptible to ruin by scrying simply pick a small handful of sensitive key facts and mark them as warded against scrying.  Or rewrite your rituals if you like. The former seems less trouble to me and fits in with my world nicely.I never spelled out to my guys that wards against scrying and other anti-scrying exist. I never needed to. You can factor it in very easily at the beginning of an adventure by having the PCs patron indicate that their help is needed specifically because the scrying of the seers involved is failing on certain key points. Who needs to make up new rituals (and items)? You can and IMVHO it adds flavour (like the time the party had to locate and destory the implement used in the evil anti-scrying ritual so that the true villain could be found... And discovered that the small shrivelled, prune-like implement was orgiinally the heart of an innocent.).  But in the end you simply don't need to. Like I said before choose your key plot-breaking points that need to be discovered by other means and "mark" them as warded against scrying.  The PCs can scry clues up leading directly to these and other facts and IMHO it enriches the game world.You know what. If you don't like scrying in your game why not simply house-rule those rituals out?Like I said. There are just so many ways to handle this "issue" from simple to convoluted. I just can't see it as a problem.In the end it's just my 2cp worth and if anyone finds it useful great, but YMMV.Cheers!</blockquote>

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