Non-Core Class Survivor: Round 16

[Mercule]

Thanee:Spell slots are cool (and not nearly as broken as spell points/power points) and an integral part of D&D.

*bzzzt* WRONG!

Spell slots are a huge obstacle to new players learning D&D, I've heard it countless times from every new player I've introduced. Spell slots are a clunky, unecessary, needlessly complex sacred cow that will (hopefully) be finally butchered in 4th Edition.

I wouldn't say slots are complex. They're no worse than any option I've seen to replace them.

"Cool", on the other hand, is a word that I would never in a million years couple with Vancian magic. Slots may be the least "cool" mechanic ever dreamed up to deal with spells.

 

[Victim]

Vancian magic is damn cool. Where DnD magic is uncool, it's also often un-Vancian.

 

[dither]

I wouldn't say slots are complex. They're no worse than any option I've seen to replace them.

"Cool", on the other hand, is a word that I would never in a million years couple with Vancian magic. Slots may be the least "cool" mechanic ever dreamed up to deal with spells.

I vote for neither spell points nor spell slots. My vote is cast to the "at will" spell-like abilities system that will eventually replace all individual "spells known." I see no reason why "the Player With the Most Splatbooks Wins;" it injures the spirit of the game.

 

[Desdichado]

I wouldn't say slots are complex. They're no worse than any option I've seen to replace them.

"Cool", on the other hand, is a word that I would never in a million years couple with Vancian magic. Slots may be the least "cool" mechanic ever dreamed up to deal with spells.

Ditto. In fact, I'm shocked by the allegations that spell slots are "difficult" to learn, as I can't see how any alternative is easier, and I've never heard that before. I have, on the other hand, very frequently heard complaints about the lack of coolness of spell slots.

I vote for neither spell points nor spell slots. My vote is cast to the "at will" spell-like abilities system that will eventually replace all individual "spells known." I see no reason why "the Player With the Most Splatbooks Wins;" it injures the spirit of the game.

I have no idea what that even means. First of all, balancing the system you mention above sounds extremely tricky, and I think there's a very good reason why nobody that I'm aware of has made a serious effort at doing so in just about any major RPG system that I know of. Second of all; selling the most splat books has been the spirit of the game for nearly as long as I can remember.

 

[Whizbang Dustyboots]

It's not a matter of somatic components. You need to make a Concentration check when entangled, even if the spell has no somatic component. And there goes the 5-foot step out of the threatened area tactic.

Concentration checks still allow a spell to be cast, especially with Skill Focus (Concentration). A scout is just screwed by the humble tanglefoot bag.

 

[Particle_Man]

I should defend the Scout slightly:

It is not meant to be stab, move, stab, move.

It is meant to be fire an arrow, move, fire an arrow, move.

Scouts make very good archers, and most of their abilities feed directly into that (skills for striking from ambush, and then getting away quickly, moving faster than the meelee guys could ever hope to, etc.)

That said, Warlock is still my favorite. And I like Duskblade slightly more than PsyWar, so the latter got my vote off the island this time.

 

[(Psi)SeveredHead]

You know. I keep hearing "problems" with spell points. What kind of problems are you refering to?

Similar to what Thanee said. I think they could have solved that situation by giving the psion fewer power points. They don't seem like they run out of power points a lot of the time.

 

[Particle_Man]

Ditto. In fact, I'm shocked by the allegations that spell slots are "difficult" to learn, as I can't see how any alternative is easier, and I've never heard that before.

Spell slots require one to learn: a) What sorts of things could be done, in general, by the class. b) What sorts of things you will pick out of that large list to be the things that you, specifically can do (perhaps for that day, perhaps for the level of power you have, and perhaps a combination of the two). c) How much of each "Resource Level" you have left, at any given time, before you can "Recharge".

Spell Point systems still require you to learn these three things, but b is simplified (since you don't have a diversity between what you can do at that level and what you can do that day, like you would with a Wizard, for example).

Warlock systems don't require you to learn the third one at all, and the second one is extremely simplified.

Hence, in increasing order of simplicity, we would have something like: Wizard, Cleric, Sorceror, Psion, Warlock.

Whether you like the latter classes or not, they are simpler, because there is less information that one has to learn, and less information one has to keep straight in one's head or on one's character sheet.

 

[FireLance]

Concentration checks still allow a spell to be cast, especially with Skill Focus (Concentration). A scout is just screwed by the humble tanglefoot bag.

Only if he fails his save, which is quite possible, especially with Lightning Reflexes. If he isn't stuck to the floor, he can still move and get his skirmish bonus.

 

[Seeker95]

Psychic Warrior goes down with more votes than the other three combined!