Non-Core Class Survivor: Round 16

Which class do you want to vote off the list?


  • Poll closed .
Regarding the Psionic classes, I did not particularly like the newest ones in Complete Psionic. Mixing divine magic concepts (ie: mantles / domains) into psionics just didn't sit right with me - although I admit that the Divine Mind was interesting. And the Lurk just seemed like it was missing something. Somehow it was a little too bland in some areas and seemingly lacking something in others. So I am not surprised that they failed to make the final ten, let alone the final four.

Of the older ones, the Soulknife is seemingly universally believed to be not-all-there. There are various disagreements as to what is wrong with it, but while the concept is liked, many seem to believe that the execution was simply not well thought out. Suggested changes range from increasing BAB to Good to a complete reworking of the class specials per level. So, though I like the class, I am not particularly surprised that it failed to make the cut.

The Wilder has been called many things, and it tends to either be loved or loathed or viewed with confused uncertainty. I myself never cared for it much, and while its overchannel concept was nice, I have read quite a few complaints about it - either its execution or its potential for balance problems. So, again, I am not surprised it didn't make the cut.

This leaves the Psion - which nearly made it to the final round, falling off only in the next to last round, and the Psychic Warrior - which did make the final round and may yet survive to see final victory. The Psion is a great class, and in the end I think it was mostly the anti-psi's that brought it down. Some simply don't like psionics - or don't mind psionics but don't like the idea of psionics in a 'fantasy' setting. This despite the fact that psionics is more science fantasy than science fiction. The Psion was the figurehead for the entire system, so it is not surprising that it fell before the Psychic Warrior.

The Psychic Warrior has its own potentials, of course. It has combat ability beyond merely the use of psionic powers, and its bonus feats can make use of psionic feats - many of which all but emulate psionic powers (especially in 3e, which is why they changed it in the XPH, I believe). In many ways it is the second most recognized 'figurehead' of the psionics system. So I would not be surprised if all anti-psi's team up against it this round - even if they dislike, say, the Duskblade or the Scout. If the pro-psi's could instead decide upon whom they least wish to remain - the Scout or the Duskblade, as it seems the Warlock is not unpopular enough to fall - then perhaps the Psychic Warrior might yet survive to allow a partial win for Psionics in this Survivor poll.

I suggest all pro-psi's vote for Duskblade, but I admit that I am biased. ;) :D
 
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Nyeshet said:
I will be severely disappointed if the Psychic Warrior falls this round, and even more so if the Duskblade does not fall.

I'm feeling with you... NOT! :p

Go, Psychic Warrior! :D

Bye
Thanee
 

Nyeshet said:
The Psychic Warrior has its own potentials, of course. It has combat ability beyond merely the use of psionic powers, and its bonus feats can make use of psionic feats - many of which all but emulate psionic powers (especially in 3e, which is why they changed it in the XPH, I believe). In many ways it is the second most recognized 'figurehead' of the psionics system. So I would not be surprised if all anti-psi's team up against it this round - even if they dislike, say, the Duskblade or the Scout. If the pro-psi's could instead decide upon whom they least wish to remain - the Scout or the Duskblade, as it seems the Warlock is not unpopular enough to fall - then perhaps the Psychic Warrior might yet survive to allow a partial win for Psionics in this Survivor poll.

If it was the Psion or Wilder, I'd be happy to see Psionics represented in the final 3... but those more worthy classes have already been voted off... and the Psy-Warrior should've been gone long ago.
 
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The Psion is a great class, and in the end I think it was mostly the anti-psi's that brought it down. Some simply don't like psionics - or don't mind psionics but don't like the idea of psionics in a 'fantasy' setting. This despite the fact that psionics is more science fantasy than science fiction. The Psion was the figurehead for the entire system, so it is not surprising that it fell before the Psychic Warrior.
You know, I keep hearing pro-psi this and anti-psi that. Hooey.

Ya know what did it for me, and was in large part why I've voted for the psionic classes while leaving things like the beguiler and duskblade alone?

Much like the binder, and others - it requires the use of a seperate magic system in order to use it, and therefor it's gotta go. Saying that magic X and magic Y use this one system, but magic Z, oh, that requires you to learn and use this other system over here. Nuh uh. Clunky. Seek elegance in simplicity.

That's why psionics has got to go. It's nothing to do with how you've got your chocolate in my peanut butter. Not for me, anyway.
 

Sejs said:
You know, I keep hearing pro-psi this and anti-psi that. Hooey.

Ya know what did it for me, and was in large part why I've voted for the psionic classes while leaving things like the beguiler and duskblade alone?

Much like the binder, and others - it requires the use of a seperate magic system in order to use it, and therefor it's gotta go. Saying that magic X and magic Y use this one system, but magic Z, oh, that requires you to learn and use this other system over here. Nuh uh. Clunky. Seek elegance in simplicity.

That's why psionics has got to go. It's nothing to do with how you've got your chocolate in my peanut butter. Not for me, anyway.

I somewhat agree with the magic system thing... however I think magic should adopt the points system and to hell with the old Spell Slots system. Also, I like that Incarnum works differently than either Magic or Psionics... although I dislike the flavor presented.
 

Drowbane said:
I somewhat agree with the magic system thing... however I think magic should adopt the points system and to hell with the old Spell Slots system.

Spell slots are cool (and not nearly as broken as spell points/power points) and an integral part of D&D. :)

Magic is already growing strong at higher levels. No need to push this even further as the XPH did.

Bye
Thanee
 

Nyeshet said:
The Psychic Warrior has its own potentials, of course. It has combat ability beyond merely the use of psionic powers, and its bonus feats can make use of psionic feats - many of which all but emulate psionic powers (especially in 3e, which is why they changed it in the XPH, I believe).

I think the psychic warrior was the first caster/fighter to "do it right." It created a good blend of casting power to enhance general fighting prowess. I believe the duskblade may be the first to do it with traditional magic.
 

Drowbane said:
Wow, the Psy Warrior outlasted all the XPH classes that are actually worth a damn. This shakes my confidence...

I'm going to go out on a limb here and say most people voting for the psi classes don't actually know much about them. And, I'll go out on a limb and say that is why they are voting them off, at the very least, that's why I'm doing it. And, that's a valid reason. I don't want to learn psionics. Of the classes listed, the psionic classes are not allowed in my game, not because I dislike pisonics, but because I'm not looking to learn alternate magic systems. Same reason I don't have the ToM classes in my game.

So, basically, I would guess that a lot of people who have been voting pisonics haven't been using much of any criteria beyond "its psionics."
 


Thanee said:
Spell slots are cool (and not nearly as broken as spell points/power points) and an integral part of D&D. :)

Magic is already growing strong at higher levels. No need to push this even further as the XPH did.

Bye
Thanee

I've disliked spell slots for roughly 18yrs, I don't see that changing. I acknowledge that they are perhaps more easily balanced than XPH's "spell-points"... but I don't really expect magic to be balanced with everything else.
 

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