Non-Core Class Survivor: Round 3

[Greg K]

Well, if I was voting, I would vote off all of the remaining off except the beguiler. Then again, the beguiler is the only remaining class that is allowable in our gaming group.

 

[Agent Oracle]

This round I'm going with the Dragon Shaman. There's nothing really bad about it mechanically, but one of its major class abilities doesn't really fit the flavor. There's nothing inherently draconic about projecting auras.

aside from, you know, dragon fear.

I see it as more of a "Shaman" first, "dragon" second.

 

[Greg K]

Well, if I was voting, I would vote off all of the remaining off except the beguiler. Then again, the beguiler is the only remaining class that is allowable in our gaming group.

 

[(Psi)SeveredHead]

That's not a very useful statement. So is rolling a Concentration check, a Caster Level check, or a Ranged Touch attack roll. The point is, the Wilder's mechanics are not any more random than any d20 core mechanic. They do not have wildly diverging results on a chart. They merely have a roll for success or failure. By the way, I actually like the Wild Mage, so I'm not trying to 'defend' the Wilder here. In fact, I'll admit that Aesthetic Monk has valid points about the class with which I agree--just play a Psion with Overchannel and Talented.

Heh heh.

Okay, I'll put it this way, since my previous explanation wasn't clear.

A 1st-level wilder can push out a 2d10 mind thrust for one power point... at 1st-level. That's breaking the metacap... that's the entire point of Wild Surge. In order to balance this ability (and I use the term loosely), you run a 5% risk of being screwed. 5%. Wouldn't stop me at all, and in return I can double the utility of my power. It's also pretty bad for things like Astral Construct.

If the risk were present all the time rather than something random, or even better, using limits rather than penalties to control the class, it might be balanced.

It gets weirder as you gain levels, though, as the ability actually gets weaker. But, at the same time, you can surge for six manifester levels. Gah! Stupid class! Kill it! But I had to vote for the knight this round. I hate that class even more.

 

[Rystil Arden]

Umm...you know about the Overchannel and Talented feats, right? But otherwise, yeah, it's true--if you want, you can have your Wilder power up her Will negates Mind Thrust, her only power known, to 2d10. But not Astral Construct, since you need to be 3rd level or higher and spend a feat for that. I don't see this as unbalanced.

As for the 5% chance of being screwed, I've seen Wizard players pay thousands and thousands of gold to remove the 5% ASF chance on a shield or piece of armour, and having the spell lost to ASF is substantially worse than the amount you're screwed for the Wild Surge.

I really don't think the Wilder is unbalanced with respect to the rest of the XPH classes. However, I would agree that it doesn't have nearly enough powers known and overall should probably be tweaked a bit to make it more fun and interesting.

 

[WarlockLord]

Th soulborn is garbage. It's a cheesy paladin/psychic warrior combo, with incarnum instead of psionics. The incarnum does not give powers cooler or better than a paladin's spells or psiwar's powers...it must go.

 

[(Psi)SeveredHead]

Umm...you know about the Overchannel and Talented feats, right?

Yes and I hate them too. I'm consistent on that. I don't like anything that lets you cheese your manifester levels (or equivalent for spellcasters - Sudden Metamagic, I'm looking at you).

But otherwise, yeah, it's true--if you want, you can have your Wilder power up her Will negates Mind Thrust, her only power known, to 2d10.

The lack of powers known is, IMO, a big deal. I don't think the wilder should be restricted to one (overpowered) ability. I think they could have used two powers at 1st-level, and none of this ML spamming.

But not Astral Construct, since you need to be 3rd level or higher and spend a feat for that.

Wait 'til 3rd-level. Now you can get AC IVs. Eventually you can squeeze out ACs two levels beyond what you should be able to pull off. I do think that's broken.

As for the 5% chance of being screwed, I've seen Wizard players pay thousands and thousands of gold to remove the 5% ASF chance on a shield or piece of armour, and having the spell lost to ASF is substantially worse than the amount you're screwed for the Wild Surge.

I don't know what's up with that, but I know I wouldn't pay that kind of cash for that small benefit. Mage players might be better off asking the DM for improved Mage Armor spells, modelled off Inertial Armor. Class abilities > items, and all that.

I really don't think the Wilder is unbalanced with respect to the rest of the XPH classes.

Well I do. But that's because I hate ML boosting cheese.

However, I would agree that it doesn't have nearly enough powers known and overall should probably be tweaked a bit to make it more fun and interesting.

I would agree on this too. I think it's broken some ways and seriously underpowered other ways. If I had the option of choosing between it and the erudite, the erudite would get booted off the island. I have no flavor-based problems with the wilder.

 

[FireLance]

aside from, you know, dragon fear.

I see it as more of a "Shaman" first, "dragon" second.

And if the dragon shaman's aura made his opponents shaken, frightened or panicked, I would have no issues with it. I do recognize that the auras generally grant "dragony" abilities - energy resistance, damage reduction, heightened senses, etc., and as mentioned, it's not a bad class mechanically. The dissonance just makes me like it the least of the remaining classes.

 

[Hussar]

I still loathe the war mage. The idea of a cadre mage with absolutely no strategic value flies straight up my left nostril. Lots of tactical value, but no strategic.

 

[Seeten]

Archivist is a REALLY good base class. Its like a mage, with a spellbook, except with divine spells, and has really neat special abilities. Its really REALLY cool.

Dread Necromancer is great, and thats coming from a guy that LOVES necromancy. If you make me happy with your necromancer entry, you win.