Non-CR based XP system from Unearthed Arcana

[Tywyll]

I looooooove the new XP system that does away with the lvl vs. CR chart of old. That has always been a part of 3.x that I loathed.

Anyway, it got me thinking about the old 2nd ed class specific ways to earn xp. You know, wizards got bonus xp for casting spells, so did clerics, fighters got bonus xp for defeating opponents, etc, etc.

So I was wondering... has anyone thought of updating this? If so, what are you doing with the somewhat broader nature of the classes these days? For instance, saying all rogues get bonus xp for stealing stuff doesn't really make sense. Now, bonus xp for skill usage perhaps might work.

What about divorcing the bonuses from specific classes and making them more generalized? Say...
If you gave a pure warrior class (anything with a good bab) 25xp x HD (or CR, not sure) of opponents defeated, perhaps classes with midbab would get 15xp x whatever.

Maybe all classes could get bonuses from skills used?

I really like the idea of going back to rewarding characters for focusing on the things about their class that make them distinct (i.e. the wizard getting xp for working magic, not necessarily for killing orcs).

 

[da chicken]

Generally, individual XP awards are bad for the game.

 

[Tywyll]

Because...?

Generally, individual XP awards are bad for the game.

Would you care to explain?

 

[reiella]

Because it results in having to justify why there are situations where a solo action results in the entire party recieving experience, and others that don't.

 

[shilsen]

It's a bad idea. Situation:

Fighter with a Bull's Strength from the cleric, hits and kills an enemy whom he is flanking with the rogue, rolling exactly what he needs to hit. Fighter gets the bonus XP? What about the cleric, whose spell made it possible for the fighter to hit, or the rogue who provided the flanking bonus?

D&D is a team game, in anything other than a solo campaign. Treating it that way is much easier and causes less unnecessary issues.

 

[PaulGreystoke]

What shilsen said;

While the idea of class-based XP awards sounds good in theory, it is malicious in practice. Take the 2E class XP awards for example. By rewarding stereotypical play, they penalized players who used their classes in creative non-stereotypical ways. For example, in 2E Rogues got bonus XP for obtaining treasure. This was fine for a player whose conception of his Rogue was as a thief, but if instead he wanted to play the character as a master spy who would not stoop to petty thievery, he missed out on XP. And it led to other kinds of gamesmanship. For example 2E Wizards & Priests got bonus XP for casting spells to overcome foes or problems. So even if a problem could be resolved without spellcasting, the spellcasters were going to want to try to use spells to do so because they got more XP that way.

The strength of D&D is its emphasis on how individuals with varied abilities can work as a team to overcome obstacles. Your desire to reward this is commendable, but class-based XP awards tend to emphasize the individual to the detriment of the team. And such systems tend to be unbalanced, favoring one class or another due to play style. I played in a 2E game where the Rogue player eventually quit in disgust because he was lagging so far behind in XP because the campaign (& his play style) made it all but impossible for him to accrue class-based XP at the rate of the other classes.

Rewarding good play through individual XP awards is fine. But basing XP awards directly on class-based mechanics generally leads to trouble. If you want to see better use of class skills & abilities in your game, reward good play as it occurs. But don't lock yourself & your players into a system that will end up encouraging XP efficient play instead of genuinely good play. Of course I gave this same advice to the DM in 2E game I mentioned above & she ignored me, so I won't be offended if you do the same.

 

[DemonAtheist]

my dm just awards xp when he feels we deserve it...he maintains that it includes everything you use your skills (not dnd definition) on to develop your character. One example: as we buried a fallen mercenary, my bard began playing a dirge. He felt that was very in character and would aid development in general so i got a small amount of exp (10 or 15). It's not much, but it is a good incentive to make players play better and think on their feet.

 

[DarkMaster]

It's a bad idea. Situation:

Fighter with a Bull's Strength from the cleric, hits and kills an enemy whom he is flanking with the rogue, rolling exactly what he needs to hit. Fighter gets the bonus XP? What about the cleric, whose spell made it possible for the fighter to hit, or the rogue who provided the flanking bonus?

D&D is a team game, in anything other than a solo campaign. Treating it that way is much easier and causes less unnecessary issues.

Well if I remember correctly they would all get experience point from the enemy the fighter would get a bonus XP per HD of the enemy, the cleric would get a certain amount for the spell cast with a succesfull result, and the rogue would not get extra bonus, Don't remember if there was a bonus for backstabbing. The rogue would also get bonus from the gold taken on the enemy.

 

[DarkMaster]

What shilsen said;

While the idea of class-based XP awards sounds good in theory, it is malicious in practice. Take the 2E class XP awards for example. By rewarding stereotypical play, they penalized players who used their classes in creative non-stereotypical ways. For example, in 2E Rogues got bonus XP for obtaining treasure. This was fine for a player whose conception of his Rogue was as a thief, but if instead he wanted to play the character as a master spy who would not stoop to petty thievery, he missed out on XP. And it led to other kinds of gamesmanship. For example 2E Wizards & Priests got bonus XP for casting spells to overcome foes or problems. So even if a problem could be resolved without spellcasting, the spellcasters were going to want to try to use spells to do so because they got more XP that way.

Agree about the rogue, in 2E rogue where not called rogue they were thief, I created new table for those special situations and never allowed any XP to a caster throwing spell in the air just for the fun of it. It also make sense that Wizard will improve by casting spell, Why would a wizard gain as much XP killing a gobelin with a dagger or with a magic missile. Like we say practice makes perfect. If the wizard only kills gobelin with his daguer I should give him a level of fighter instead.

The other thing I don't like is that wizard cannot gain level by simply experimenting magic in their lab as they could before. Wizard in my world are mostly university guy who spend their life studying magic and don't care about adventuring they leave that to the sorcerer. I had to come up with some kind of system to make people level up with training, obviously the process is much slower.

I personnaly uses the 3.5 system which I find much simpler and allow everyone in the group to level up around the same time, but still see some very positive thing in the old 2E system

 

[Planesdragon]

So I was wondering... has anyone thought of updating this? If so, what are you doing with the somewhat broader nature of the classes these days? For instance, saying all rogues get bonus xp for stealing stuff doesn't really make sense. Now, bonus xp for skill usage perhaps might work.

Why not just give Power Points (also in UA) for notable use of a character's abilities?

i.e., a wizard tosses a fireball at the exact right moment and saves the party - the wizard gets a powerpoint.