Non Lethal Damage?

[Regicide]

It's perfectly logical if you can get your head around what HP and damage actually are (or more importantly, what they are not) in 4e terms.

They're numbers. Thats the only perfectly logical answer 4E will give us. You "hit" people with things and deal "damage" to them to the point that they are "bloodied", but they can take a brief rest and get "healing surges" and are no longer damaged. There is nothing even vaguely logical about it. It's a number that can be altered in various ways and when it is at certain values you have to apply certain rules. There is absolutely no modeling of any sort of logic or reality being done with that number. Fall off a cliff, rest for 5 minutes, you're fine. Jump in some lava, get out, rest for 5 minutes, you're fine. Get hit in a critical spot with a sword, rest for 5 minutes, you're fine. Fumble and have a dagger land on your foot and lose 1 hp, drink a magical healing potion and nothing happens because you've spent too much time resting already today.

 

[Lucas Blackstone]

It's actually very logical if you stop trying to be literal with the word term bloodied. The HP system and healing surge system makes a lot of sense to me in all senses except the healing potion one but I accept it for the sake of the rest of the system working.

I do agree that healing potions are weird by not working when the target has no healing surges, but even that could be explained with ease.

 

[Regicide]

It's actually very logical if you stop trying to be literal with the word term bloodied. The HP system and healing surge system makes a lot of sense to me in all senses except the healing potion one but I accept it for the sake of the rest of the system working.

Cleric walking down the road comes across a scene of carnage, 4 city guard had been patrolling and came across a small band or orc raiders. The cleric asks what happened, the lieutenant says "oh, we had a long and bloody fight, 2 of my lads were even down and dying at one point, but we got the best of them we did, we killed all the orcs." The cleric says "oh blessed me, well you're in luck, I'm a cleric of Pelor, I'll heal your wounds." The lieutenant looks at him and say "oh, none of us are WOUNDED, no, no, we rested for 5 minutes."

 

[Dalzig]

Cleric walking down the road comes across a scene of carnage, 4 city guard had been patrolling and came across a small band or orc raiders. The cleric asks what happened, the lieutenant says "oh, we had a long and bloody fight, 2 of my lads were even down and dying at one point, but we got the best of them we did, we killed all the orcs." The cleric says "oh blessed me, well you're in luck, I'm a cleric of Pelor, I'll heal your wounds." The lieutenant looks at him and say "oh, none of us are WOUNDED, no, no, we rested for 5 minutes."

Bah, those soldiers are monsters, so they can't use healing surges by themselves.

And if my DM said that... I would probably attack the LT just so I could heal his ass.

Edit: On a sidenote... why does Wizards suck at keeping their forums online?

 

[Kordeth]

Cleric walking down the road comes across a scene of carnage, 4 city guard had been patrolling and came across a small band or orc raiders. The cleric asks what happened, the lieutenant says "oh, we had a long and bloody fight, 2 of my lads were even down and dying at one point, but we got the best of them we did, we killed all the orcs." The cleric says "oh blessed me, well you're in luck, I'm a cleric of Pelor, I'll heal your wounds." The lieutenant looks at him and say "oh, none of us are WOUNDED, no, no, we rested for 5 minutes."

Being at full hit points doesn't equate to being without physical injury.

 

[Regicide]

Being at full hit points doesn't equate to being without physical injury.

It means you are undamaged. It means you are at your maximum potential to sustain damage and still survive. It means you are as far away from dying or being bloodied as is possible. It means that if you were to suffer physical trauma such as falling, you are as unlikely to die as you can possibly be. It in fact means you are without physical injury.

Everything that is a holdover from 3.5 and previous versions including the word damage and hit points still implies hit points are a measure of your health. The obnoxious healing surge mechanic is the only thing to break with it by the fact that you instantly and inexplicably recover health. Even the NAME healing surge implies that it's... oh, I dunno... HEALING INJURY. Why can't you use a HEALING surge to get past your max HPs? Because you're, oh, maybe, UNINJURED?

 

[Dalzig]

Everything that is a holdover from 3.5 and previous versions including the word damage and hit points still implies hit points are a measure of your health.

Please go reread your game manuals. It was NEVER stated as solely a measure of your health.

 

[Lucas Blackstone]

Reg, the following is what HP represent in D&D 4th Edition

Hit points (hp) measure your ability to stand up to punishment, turn deadly strikes into glancing blows, and stay on your feet throughout a battle. Hit points represent more than physical endurance. They represent your character’s skill, luck, and resolve—all the factors that combine to help you stay alive in a combat situation.

This is why it is totally possible to have injuries, yet be at full hit points. it's not just raw physical condition. So, after a short rest, people are able to regain their focus, push the pain out of their mind, bind their wounds and get moving again. It's really simple.

 

[generalhenry]

HP are what they're always been. A measure of victory over your opponent.

They're a game mechanic. Fair and easy to track.

RP wise they're often equated to wounds. But game wise it doesn't matter at all.

They're how you determine who wins the fight.

 

[RefinedBean]

Obviously those four guards AREN'T at their full and maximum potential, since they spent a (probably) good amount of their healing surges for the day. Sure, they've pulled themselves up by their bootstraps and could trudge into another battle if need be, but it'll go a lot worse for them. They need time to really lick their wounds, eat and sleep...an extended rest to give them the energy to go on.

Of course, since they're not adventuring heroes, none of that applies to them unless all the guards of your world are fully statted-out level 1 fighters or what-not.