Non-random D&D Miniatures

[3catcircus]

Of course they produce more commons than rares. Do you really believe the frequency of a figure is imaginary? There's only one rare in a pack (excluding huge packs), and only one of a given rare in a case. When you buy a case, you're almost guaranteed four of every common and two of every uncommon. You will never find more than one of a rare.

So what reason do they have not to produce lots of the rares? Rares are typically more detailed sculpts, painted in more steps, and often in more pieces than commons or uncommons. They are more expensive to produce. They're the kind of miniature you should expect to pay $10-$20 for unpainted, unassembled, unmounted.

I don't think you understand the miniatures economy as well as you believe. The cards are certainly not what forces the price and distribution of DDM.

I'd invite you to take a look at the following: Injection Molding Estimator and http://www.cypressindustries.com/plastics_tooling.html#plasticcost and since I don't know labor and print costs, please tell me whether or not it costs more to produce the minis then it does to pay someone to come up with the stats and then print the stat cards.

 

[JustKim]

I spent too much time deciphering just what you linked me to, and whatever major revelation you planned still did not catch. It only seems to confirm what we've heard before. Care to elaborate?

 

[3catcircus]

I spent too much time deciphering just what you linked me to, and whatever major revelation you planned still did not catch. It only seems to confirm what we've heard before. Care to elaborate?

The point was that the labor costs about 0.2 cents to paint each mini.

The injection molding estimator (first link) allows you to estimate US costs to make injection molded plastic parts. I'm making the following assumptions:

1. They minis are made of cheap plastic.
2. They are using a large production run (500,000 pieces), with each mold holding 32 cavities (pieces).
3. The parts are highly complex.
5. The dimensions are roughly 1 inch x 1 inch x 28 mm high.
6. They are made in China.

The results estimate that the costs are as follows:

Process: 1 cent
Materials: 1 cent
Tooling: 0

TOTAL COST: 2 cents per piece.

The second link gives an estimate for injection molding in the US vs. China, and whether it is just making the pieces, or doing other operations (cleaning, painting, etc.)

For a run of minis in the US or China, the cost is "x" which in this case is 2 cents per piece. For the run with second ops in the US the cost is 1.3x. For a run of minis in China with second ops (which is what these minis are, since they are painted), the cost is 1.1x per piece. That is 1.1 multiplied by 2 cents which is 2.2 cents per piece. The painting costs 0.2 cents per piece.

I don't know what the packaging costs, import duties and freight costs are, but it basically costs WotC less than a quarter for 8 minis.

Even under a worst-case condition (low run, high quality plastic), the total costs are only 55 cents per piece (50 cents for the mini, a nickel for the painting).

I simply can't believe that the mini's cost more to produce than it costs to pay someone to come up with the stats and then print stat cards. My guess is that the costs are probably about even.

Eliminate the stat cards and you eliminate costs. Eliminate costs and you can afford to sell non-random packs of minis.

Other ways to save even more - packaging costs - get rid of the plastic packages each mini comes in (and I hate having to pop each package open anyway) and just package them in the cardboard boxes directly.

 

[Glyfair]

I'm guessing the biggest espense *isn't* the plastic. It *isn't* the painting labor. It is the time and effort to stat the stupid things and print the cards. You could easily eliminate the cards and the costs for a non-random set would probably be equal to the costs for a random set with cards, if not less.

No, it's the molds to make the miniatures.

 

[Glyfair]

The point was that the labor costs about 0.2 cents to paint each mini.

I think you are assuming lowest possible quality (plastic army man quality). Also, remember this is per piece. Many miniatures (most?) are multiple pieces put together (I know it was very common with WizKids, not sure about DDM).

Actually, now that I think about it, I think the biggest expense overall is transportation.

 

[thalmin]

All of the figures are at least 2 pieces: the figure itself, and the base.

 

[Agamon]

I've had a head pop off a lizardfolk rogue. It popped right back on, it was certainly made as a seperate piece.

 

[MerricB]

The larger figures can be several pieces. The Beholder is 3 or 4.

Cheers!

 

[Pbartender]

To the person that would be ok with 150 minis in 5 years - ever see that gum commercial where they make gum that lasts forever? They put themselves out of business.

How many minis do you sell as a company if you only put out 30 a year? Once a DM has 3-5 packs of orcs at that rate, how many more do people buy? The reason WotC can continue to make money on this stuff is that they put out the weird/rare/unique stuff, that enough people want, that people buy the packs. If they only concentrated on orcs/drow/elves/dwarves/humans - they'd put themselves out of work pretty fast.

How many times do I have to say it... Just because as a consumer I don't like the current random collectable mini business model, that doesn't mean that I don't understand why WotC chose it over selling non-random minis or that I don't agree that for them it was the best decision for the company.

Now, it makes me wonder... What if they chose a different marketing angle?

Right now, they have a line of random plastic figurines designed to be a roleplaying game aid, which a secodary function as a collectable strategy game. They are marketing it as a collectable strategy game that also happens to be suitable for use as a roleplaying game aid.

But I also notice that my grade-school kids have a blast playing with these figurines -- toys, really -- on their own. in the last year or so, when I walk through Toys R Us, there has been a proliferation of fantasy-themed toys from a lot of different companies... Dragons and knights and vikings and such.

So I wonder... Would it be worthwhile for Hasbro/Wizards to produce and market a line of plastic figurines that were toys that happen to be suitable for use as a roleplaying game aid?

After all, a lot of us do that already -- buy sacks of plastic dinosaurs, animals and monsters from the Dollar Store and use them as cheap minis. That's why we've got monsters like the bulette and the rust monster in the Monster Manual.

Which brings up another question... If the molds for plastic figurines are so expensive, how do all of these no-name companies that make and sell sack-fulls of plastic toys at discount stores staying in business?

 

[stonehill_troll]

Which brings up another question... If the molds for plastic figurines are so expensive, how do all of these no-name companies that make and sell sack-fulls of plastic toys at discount stores staying in business?

Because those companies have used and many still use the same molds literally for years and decades (see http://www.thortrains.net/armymen/bagtroop.html). The Tim-Mee plastic soliders I grew up with have been around with since 1969 I believe. The cost for the molds has long since been paid for them and many of those companies share the molds. So the primary recurring costs for them is plastic (oil-based), packaging (oil-based plastic bag), some cardboard packaging, distribution handling, freight, and profit. So if you see a bag of army men for $2.99, I can tell you that the store paid about $1.50 to buy from the distributor. Of course smaller bag assortments are available in the dollar stores. I am sure that they have decent sales and profit else they would not keep doing it, but it's probably pretty small compared to DDM sales.

WOTC recurring costs are much higher, they have game designers (for the stats), artists and 3D modelers for each new models that goes in the set. Which of course means they have to make x number (depends on the number of minis in the set) of new molds for each set. On top of that their minis have a much higher level of paint detail versus the single dyed plastic color soldier. Each mold then is used for about 3-6 months of production, then retired for a while. So despite having sold millions of minis, its is spread across hundreds and hundreds of molds, if not thousands as many minis are made up of several pieces.

While WOTC could keep using the same minis, that would be boring IMO and sales would fall and flaten over the long term. I believe they recognize much of the appeal of their minis is the changing assortment in each new set. While I don't know for certain, I imagine at the release month of each new set there is a huge sales rush. While I am not a collector like some of my friends, I do see the appeal to trying to collect each new mni that's been put out. Though I do purchase by the case (from about 4 sets thus far) in order to maximize the number of minis I get per dollar spent.