Non-stacking bonuses, and penalties

[Bullgrit]

I see hypothetical questions like this on this board all the time, and I think how silly it is to discuss such things. Then my group encounters such a situation in a real game.

My character had two +1 morale bonuses on him (aid spell and bard song). Now, these don't stack, so the end result is a +1 bonus. But then he got hit with a -1 penalty (bane spell). There was confusion among us as to what that means in the end result.

Result A: One +1 bonus and the -1 penalty cancel each other out, leaving the second bonus for a total +1 bonus for me.

Result B: Since I've got a total +1 bonus, the -1 penalty cancels it out, leaving a total +0 for me.

The DM ruled for Result A, and that's what we went with. But I'm not sure about this. What's the correct answer.

Bullgrit

 

[StormCrow42]

The correct answer would have been B. Penalties don't cancel any particular bonus, so they can't reduce just one half of an overlapping bonus.

 

[Infiniti2000]

The correct answer is actually A, though not for the same reason. When bane is cast on someone with a bless effect, both effects are automatically canceled (no save, no SR). So, the ally would be left with the bardic music (+1 morale bonus on attacks and damage).

 

[Bullgrit]

The correct answer would have been B. Penalties don't cancel any particular bonus, so they can't reduce just one half of an overlapping bonus.

Would it have made a difference with the order: aid spell, bane spell, bard song?

Bullgrit

 

[Bullgrit]

When bane is cast on someone with a bless effect, both effects are automatically canceled (no save, no SR).

Just to nip this misunderstanding in the bud, before other reponses might get sidetracked: the spells in our scenario were aid and bane, not bless and bane. The difference is the counter/dispell effects of bless and bane.

Bullgrit

 

[Infiniti2000]

Oops, I thought you said bless. It's B as Stormcrow mentions.

 

[dcollins]

What's the correct answer.

(B). Total bonus: +1. Total penalty: -1. End result: +0.
For reference, look in the PHB Glossary under "modifier".

 

[Hypersmurf]

Oops, I thought you said bless. It's B as Stormcrow mentions.

Going from memory, in 1E Unearthed Arcana, the Aid spell granted the effects of a Bless spell as well as some hit points. If that were still the case, the morale bonus might be dispelled by Bane.

But it's not

-Hyp.

 

[Bullgrit]

Ironically, I "argued" for Result B, myself. But it just seems so . . . wrong. I got two +1 bonuses, and it only takes one -1 penalty to completely negate them both.

And repeating my second question: would it make a difference with a different order of the effects.

Bullgrit

 

[Patryn of Elvenshae]

The "order of effects" doesn't matter.