"Not 4.5" is coming soon. Thoughts?

[Gradine]

Yeah, actually, that's exactly the intention. They've said in so many words that you should be able to play Essentials characters and normal characters--even members of the "same" class--in the same party.

I stand corrected on their intent then, though I'm still reserving judgment on my own.

One unfortunate thing about the presentation of 4.0 is that it really needs to be tested to be understood. It'll take more than just looking at it to figure out if it really meshes well.

 

[Scribble]

I'm going to guess that the "change" won't be to the powers, but instead will show up as a "class feature" kind of like how Psionic Augmentation shows up.

Essentials classes will just have a feature like being able to re-up encounter powers or something that will balance them with classes that have dailies.

Then they can just release powers, instead of having to release them in separate groups for essentials and non essentials classes and players can pick and choose them as they need to.

All existing players can buy and use the essentials stuff for their existing characters, and people who start with essentials also now have a good reason to buy the DDI, and access the existing powers.

"Level up your game- Find hundreds of new powers waiting for you online with a subscription to D&D insider today!!!"

It would be win win for everyone.

Another option I see would be if they, in the next update (in October) changed ALL classes to no longer have dailies, and reworked all the dailies to exist as encounter powers. In which case the argument for 4.5 would be a bit more valid...

I'm hoping they didn't choose to go that route- though if you have a DDI account the change would be the same level of difficulty as any of the other changes they've made I think.

:-D

 

[ggroy]

Another option I see would be if they, in the next update (in October) changed ALL classes to no longer have dailies, and reworked all the dailies to exist as encounter powers. In which case the argument for 4.5 would be a bit more valid...

Something like this could ignite a huge explosion of nerd rage.

 

[Zaran]

I don't care whether or not it's 4.5 but it seems to me they are removing not just daily powers but also the variety of encounter powers as well. I don't see how the rules compendium can list encounter powers for every build in the essentials line. That tells me that instead of picking new powers as you level, you will basically just get power points or something. So they already took the simulationism out of the game. Are they taking the cinematics out as well?

Seems like they are gutting the game down to almost nothing. Is that a good way to bring new players ? Does new players = dumb players? I hope I'm wrong. I think they are advertising this the wrong way. If they wanted to rip out all of the powers they should have said it's a different game that introduces the idea of dnd until they are ready to go into the regular version.

 

[Scribble]

Something like this could ignite a huge explosion of nerd rage.

Maybe maybe not...

I mean they changed the monster damage, and it hasn't seemed to cause much of a backlash, even though it forces you to update all other monsters.

They added roles to minions, and it didn't cause too much of an issue.

They've changed skills, and updated/changed a whole slew of powers/items/feats.

Would it really have that huge of an impact comparatively?

You'd get a new class feature, that lets you do whatever it is essentials can do that equals dailies, you'd stop using dailies, and you could pick new encounter powers that were once daily powers.

Everything else would stay pretty much the same.

 

[Pseudopsyche]

Obviously they will need some mechanic to keep someone from (1) choosing encounter powers that were rebalanced to account for the lack of daily powers AND (2) choosing daily powers too. I wonder how they will manage that?

I'd wager that the new encounter powers will be balanced the same as existing encounter powers. If the new builds do remove daily powers, they could easily compensate via some new class feature. That approach would certainly be at least as easy as maintaining two kinds of encounter powers. It could be something like the ability to recharge encounter powers or to add two dice to an encounter power's damage roll once per day or gaining extra encounter powers or whatever.

 

[TerraDave]

There is a variaty of changes happening.

-100 plus pages of errata
-new directions in some later books (MMIII is the prime example)
-the essentials, compatible but basically a redo on both player and monster side.
-?

The "?" is what happens post essentials. Are getting "expert" rules to go with the "basic" ones?

Besides confirming that this is quite a bit of change, not really sure what to think (well besides that statement in my sig). We will learn more from Gencon, the DDI previews, and of course when we start to see this stuff.

 

[ggroy]

There is a variaty of changes happening.

-100 plus pages of errata
-new directions in some later books (MMIII is the prime example)
-the essentials, compatible but basically a redo on both player and monster side.
-?

The "?" is what happens post essentials.

- the "Abyssal Plague"

 

[Scribble]

There is a variaty of changes happening.

-100 plus pages of errata
-new directions in some later books (MMIII is the prime example)
-the essentials, compatible but basically a redo on both player and monster side.
-?

The "?" is what happens post essentials. Are getting "expert" rules to go with the "basic" ones?

Besides confirming that this is quite a bit of change, not really sure what to think (well besides that statement in my sig). We will learn more from Gencon, the DDI previews, and of course when we start to see this stuff.

I wonder if they've decided that new editions, and half editions are bad for business... They divide players, cause "wars" and just get people annoyed at "having" to re-buy stuff in an updated form.

I'm guessing that instead 4e is just going to continue to grow and change almost organically, so 5 or 6 years from now the game may be dramatically different then it was in 2008, but the edition will still say 4th.

I mean look at how different stuff is even now?

We might never even see an official 5th edition, or if we do, it won't be new books... Just updates to the core 4e rules.

When they come out with new editions of Magic does it invalidate all the previous cards?

 

[Ryujin]

And some of the things that they've done have had a rather large effect on particular builds. For example my admittedly sub-optimal build Fey/Darklock has been nerfed by the change to the Weapon Expertise feat. I used Feyborn Charm to balance my starting 16 CHA, but that now is no longer possible. I know that the changes are frequently meant to enhance the game's balance and reduce the desire for power gaming, but a frequent unintentional by-product is to force people into power gaming and, by that, I mean decidedly unbalanced attribute builds.

They might conceivably be able to fit one new build, for each class, in a new book. They might also just add in a mechanic for trading a daily in for another encounter power. The thing is, there are always consequences to the changes, intended AND otherwise.