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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Odhanan" data-source="post: 3940957" data-attributes="member: 12324">I agree. There are several things that should stop I think when talking about 4E. One of them is the systematic talk of "pro" and "anti" 4E people. Putting people into opposing camps or categories never helps any kind of exchange or communication. Same thing about the stereotypes and the "us against them" attitude.I think that pretending the designers of 4E don't like D&D is ludicrous, as you pointed out. I do, however, think that 4E is designed for people who don't like D&D. To rephrase the statement and clarify, 4E is marketed to people who, for reason X or Y, are unhappy with third edition. It emphasizes that 3rd ed is so inherently flawed that a switch to 4E is a no-brainer, and it is just wrong. Wrong, because there are many DMs and players out there who are perfectly fine with the rules as they are now, who make choices as to what they want to use in their games or not on an every day basis and don't need a new set of rulebooks to tell them what the proper choices are. 4E has not been addressing this crowd of fans of third edition by presenting them compelling evidence of the superior assets it has compared to 3rd ed. They are told they cannot translate their home campaign and would be better off starting again from scratch. They are told that some of their iconic classes, races and whatnot are thrown out the window because they "aren't fun" (To WHOM exactly? ). For me, it is clear that 4E tries to appeal to people who are unhappy with core elements of the D&D game as it stands, so much so that they applaud a complete overhaul of the system and implied setting. I'm fine with these people, I hope they'll be as pleased with the new game as they already clamor loud and clear (despite the lack of concrete, interconnecting information we have according to Mike Mearls). That doesn't mean, however, that everyone has to just welcome all these changes. Far from it. I say: let's respect those who are happy with 4E's presentation, and let's respect those who feel disoriented, confused, or sad because of it. Let's discuss and agree to disagree, because it seems to me now that obviously the people posting on these boards and elsewhere sometimes have a very different idea of what they want out of "Dungeons and Dragons". If we want our opinions to be respected around here, it's time to stop the snide remarks, the passive-aggressive attitude, the characterization and stereotyping, the vindictive humor, the straw man arguments, and all those attacks against other people who don't share our opinions. Too many people around here just want to be the only ones right. This has got to stop.</blockquote>

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