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<blockquote data-quote="ECMO3" data-source="post: 9472201" data-attributes="member: 7030563">That doesn't make it easy for them to track or that they do it effectively, especially if they are on their cellphone finding a meme for whatever they did last turn.Cleave the problem is using different attack modifiers and the difference in damage.&nbsp; Used with Truestrike-AB for example at 3rd level with an 18 Charisma and 13 Strength - you are getting 1 attack with +6 to hit, +8 to damage and a 2nd attack with a +3 attack and no damage bonus.When used with Green flame Blade it gets even wonkier - your attack is getting a +3 attack, with a +5 damage, the second target is taking 4 from the green flame blade and then you are getting a second attack on him with a +3 attack and no damage bonus.Then there is often either Divine Smite or worse Wrathful Smite thrown on top of that.That is a lot of numbers to throw around and keep track of and those are the two most common uses of Cleave I am seeing in play and this is only level 3!&nbsp; It would be easier if the weapon being used was a Pact of the Blade Weapon, but it isn't.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="ECMO3, post: 9472201, member: 7030563"] That doesn't make it easy for them to track or that they do it effectively, especially if they are on their cellphone finding a meme for whatever they did last turn. Cleave the problem is using different attack modifiers and the difference in damage. Used with Truestrike-AB for example at 3rd level with an 18 Charisma and 13 Strength - you are getting 1 attack with +6 to hit, +8 to damage and a 2nd attack with a +3 attack and no damage bonus. When used with Green flame Blade it gets even wonkier - your attack is getting a +3 attack, with a +5 damage, the second target is taking 4 from the green flame blade and then you are getting a second attack on him with a +3 attack and no damage bonus. Then there is often either Divine Smite or worse Wrathful Smite thrown on top of that. That is a lot of numbers to throw around and keep track of and those are the two most common uses of Cleave I am seeing in play and this is only level 3! It would be easier if the weapon being used was a Pact of the Blade Weapon, but it isn't. [/QUOTE]

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