D&D (2024) Not loving weapon mastery with beginners

[Clint_L]

When we play tested the weapon mastery rules in my home campaign, I liked them. They slowed things down slightly, but it was only two players and they knew what they were doing.

My new campaign at school has eight players, half of them brand new, three of whom have weapon mastery. And it is slowing combat down substantially. The things it adds - another decision point, more tactics, more rolls - are flaws not features for someone who is trying to learn a ton of stuff at once. Kinda wishing these had been an optional rule.

 

[Quickleaf]

I was worried about this kind of thing happening with weapon masteries for some groups. I kept saying that in the Unearthed Arcana playtest feedback – the "face lift", diversity, and improved organization are great additions, but there are serious choke-points in this new version for new players when you dig in. Eventually I got exhausted giving feedback to them, realizing my view was a minority position and that WotC has different priorities.

Hope your gang manages to find a way to work with that part of the rules that works for you! Always fun to game with new folks!

 

[Juxtapozbliss]

I was worried about this kind of thing happening with weapon masteries for some groups. I kept saying that in the Unearthed Arcana playtest feedback – the "face lift", diversity, and improved organization are great additions, but there are serious choke-points in this new version for new players when you dig in. Eventually I got exhausted giving feedback to them, realizing my view was a minority position and that WotC has different priorities.

Hope your gang manages to find a way to work with that part of the rules that works for you! Always fun to game with new folks!

I felt the same when I gave passionate and repeated feedback about turning Inspiration into a feature that can be achieved through feats and species instead of remaining a DM award for good roleplaying. That ship sailed, and my voice was not influential.

 

[TheSword]

When we play tested the weapon mastery rules in my home campaign, I liked them. They slowed things down slightly, but it was only two players and they knew what they were doing.

My new campaign at school has eight players, half of them brand new, three of whom have weapon mastery. And it is slowing combat down substantially. The things it adds - another decision point, more tactics, more rolls - are flaws not features for someone who is trying to learn a ton of stuff at once. Kinda wishing these had been an optional rule.

I guess the question is. More than having spells?

 

[mellored]

Maybe move it to level 2?

 

[Horwath]

When we play tested the weapon mastery rules in my home campaign, I liked them. They slowed things down slightly, but it was only two players and they knew what they were doing.

My new campaign at school has eight players, half of them brand new, three of whom have weapon mastery. And it is slowing combat down substantially. The things it adds - another decision point, more tactics, more rolls - are flaws not features for someone who is trying to learn a ton of stuff at once. Kinda wishing these had been an optional rule.

what weapon mastery is exactly the problem?
Topple is only one that requires save.
You can rule it that there is no save but it triggers when you beat AC by 5 or more.

Graze is a no brainer,
Slow also,
Nick is write and forget about it,
Vex comes with attack roll so it's same roll basically,
Push is also no rolls,
Only cleave gives extra roll for extra attack, but attacks are fun and we want more of them.
Sap is disadvantage and it's the same roll when you do it.

 

[Clint_L]

I guess the question is. More than having spells?

I’m not sure why that is the question. Spells were already in the game. Are you suggesting making spells optional?

So, to clarify, this specific new thing that was added substantially slows the game down for beginners, and slightly slows the game down for veterans. Spells were already in the game, so that is included in the math when I refer to slowing down the game compared to the old rules. Which I thought was kind of obvious.

I am also accounting for things like sneak attack, and pets, and rage, and smite, and so on. Assuming a 2014 baseline, weapon mastery makes the game slower, and much more than I expected for new players, specifically.

Was there a point you were trying to make that I have missed?

 

[TheSword]

I’m not sure why that is the question. Spells were already in the game. Are you suggesting making spells optional?

So, to clarify, this specific new thing that was added substantially slows the game down for beginners, and slightly slows the game down for veterans.

It’s a new thing that makes martials more interesting to play. Would you begrudge one player pretties because it slows the game when added to the ones the other players get?

It gets faster as you play.

 

[payn]

Get some notecards and give cheat notes for the newbs.

 

[DrJawaPhD]

Kinda wishing these had been an optional rule.

Everything is optional when teaching new players the game. With brand new players, I always try to simplify their combat options until they fully understand the basics, then start informing them more and more about what they can do