Nuclear weapons of D&D Rules

[Noldor Elf]

The recent Design & Development article of WotC website discusses the habit of avoiding certain rules or tactics based on either their complexity or effectiveness.

First of all, do you think that such rules actuallly exist?

Grappling was mentioned in the article.

Sunder has emerged quite often as tactic that is avoided by silent mutual understanding, as players are afraid that it might be more harmfull to them if it would be used.

Secondly, can they really be avoided? Rules that are currently being avoided are most likely candidates for revision in future (no, I am not predicting that 4E is coming). But can these things really be avoided or would fixing of current "nuclear weapons" just make new problems inevitably emerge?

 

[gfunk]

Mage's Disjunction is another such "nuke."

 

[Gold Roger]

Save or die in many groups.

 

[Whimsical]

In my game, Mordenkainen's Funkiller (aka disjunction) is replaced by a 9th level dispel magic that lets you target 1 target per level, like the eighth level spell in the PH II, but widened to targets being 60 ft. from each other. It also can reverse one effect that would normally require a wish or miracle to reverse.

The funny thing about grappling is that I consider the grappling system in D&D 3.5 to be very well crafted. But I do acknowledge that it has a learning curve.

 

[ruleslawyer]

I think grapple is fine, to be honest. There are several rather annoying nukes:

1) The holy word spells, when properly maxed out by caster level increases (spell power, prayer beads, etc.)

2) mage's disjunction (eesh!)

3) time stop

4) sunder

5) scry-buff-teleport (perhaps the biggest)

...and a bunch of other ones. IMHO, all of these need fixing, including sunder (which, IMHO, is a lot better in 3.5 than in 3.0 due to the new rules on sundering magical weapons and hit points and hardness). Of course, all of these are reasonably easy to fix in a campaign by judicious application of house rules, and I prefer that rather than the MAD treaty approach.

 

[Hairfoot]

I quite like disjunction. It deters over-reliance on magic items.

 

[Agent Oracle]

My Evil GM, when he was a PC, was a sunder-fiend. he even kept a chart around of the hardness and hitpoints of various materials so he could take his sunders a-la-carte. In one campaign the ONLY attack he would make would be sunders. (I run up to their leader and sunder his weapon! then i sunder the next guy's weapon, and the next, and the next..."

So, one day, the GM (My Incompetent GM, that's another story.) made a special magic item. (With the help of myself and another player / GM). It was called the runesword of antisunder. The round begain, the EvilGM's sunder-fiend ran up, and (as allways) sundered the runesword.

The resulting fireball killed both him and the enemy who was holding the runesword. He was pissed for a little while, then laughed it off and rolled up a 3.0 samurai for the campaign...

 

[painandgreed]

The funny thing about grappling is that I consider the grappling system in D&D 3.5 to be very well crafted. But I do acknowledge that it has a learning curve.

It is very well crafted, but it is also an order of magnitude* more complicated that the regular combat. Therefore it seems out of place with the rest of the system which is roll to hit and then roll damage. This increase of complexity also means an increase in time it takes to resolve. By time one person is finished with their grapple checks, the rest of the party could have finished their actions. So it is not used much because people don't want to take up too much time with just their action and reserved for the few situations that require it. Since it is used so little, it takes all the much longer to resolve due to a lack of familiarity with the rules.


*Ok, probably only about 3 or 4 times as complicated.

 

[Rodrigo Istalindir]

I would no more take Mages Disjunction or 'save or die' spells off the table than I would eliminate MDT or death at -10. You can't triumph if there is no risk of failure. Even if they don't come into play often (or at all), the possibility has to be there.

 

[Ds Da Man]

I think sunder and grappling are 2 that never gets used at our table. We never spoke of it, just never used them (well, some monsters made us use grapple).