Nystuls Magical Aura

[Ricochet]

When using Nystuls Aura spell to mask a magic items magical properties (doesn't detect with Detect Magic), would this also shield the item from a True Seeing?

Taking it a bit further, I play an illusionist, and True Seeing sees right trough illusions since they are magical, but assume I make an "Illusory Wall" and then use "Nystuls" to make it appear nonmagical... In my thinking, a caster would have to dispel the magic og Nystuls first before being able to see the wall with True Seeing, but can anyone tell me if this is correct?

 

[Mephistopheles]

True seeing sees through illusions so it would see through illusory wall and Nystul's undetectable aura.

Also, although it's redundant given the first part of the answer, illusory wall produces a figment which does not qualify as a target for Nystul's undetectable aura, so it wouldn't have helped anyway.

 

[Ricochet]

Well that sure sucks...

Any hints how to go about trying to fool people with True Seeing then?

Since everyone knows divinations, it seems Illusionists are having a hard time in the high levels, especielly when True Seeing is a must-have spell.

 

[frankthedm]

Well that sure sucks...

Any hints how to go about trying to fool people with True Seeing then?

thats a good one

 

[Ricochet]

thats a good one

Yes, I'm glad to humor you, but there has to be some loopholes.

 

[Oni]

hurm...mix schools up a bit.

Cast blindness on them.

Ok, doesn't work in more subtle situations, however you won't have to worry about them seeing jack.

Attack their other senses, it only affects sight.

Further more, I would argue that Nystul's Magical aura could not be seen through with true seeing.

Why?

Because it changes the apparant aura of an object. Does True Seeing allow the recipient to see aura's or detect magic? Nope.

"In addition, the spell effects cannot be further enhanced with known magic, so one cannot use true seeing through a crystal ball or in conjunction with clairaudience/clairvoyance."

That's straight from the spell description.


Of course this still doesn't help you in regards to your first question. Nystul's Magical aura changes the answer to the question is this a magical item? True Seeing doesn't ask that question, it ask whether something is an illusion? (well not exactly, but for the sake of ease...) That and you can't cast it on somethig that isn't there (Nystul's magical aura that is).


Anyway, fooling people with true seeing is very difficult, which I'm sure you know. Have to be clever about it, and even then. Being an illusionist requires a lot of thought.


(Gah, I've been up to long and I'm not even sure half of what I said make sense, but I'm going to hit the reply button and torture you with it anyway.)

 

[Ricochet]

Thanks for the pointers Oni, I think its time to homebrew a new spell to conceal permanent illusions ;-)

 

[KarinsDad]

Put a Wall of Force up in front of your Illusionary Wall.

Although the True Seeing will note the invisibility of the Wall of Force, it will not be able to penetrate it (due to the description of Wall of Force) to note the illusory qualities of the Wall behind it.


Presuming that your DM agrees that Force spells create solid effects, you could also try the following. If your DM does not agree, then you cannot.

You could use Shadow Conjuration to produce the following effect:

1) Shadow Conjure a "summon monster" creature. The creature is quasi-real, so you can cast other spells on it.
2) Cast Mage Armor (or even Shadow Conjuration Mage Armor) on the shadow conjured creature. Mage Armor is arguably solid, so True Seeing cannot see past it.


This is really bending the rules a little (since Force effects are not well defined, at least in 3E). But to me, Force effects create the equivalent of invisible solid matter or energy, depending on what effect is created. YMMV.

You could at least attempt to talk your DM into allowing this. One possible argument is that incorporeal creatures can move through solid objects, but cannot move through force objects. Hence, magical force objects are stronger than solid objects and should stop magical effects that solid objects stop.

On page 76 DMG 3E, it states:

"Force effects are a special exception. A material force effect..."

This implies that force effects are material effects (presumably solid material effects). Course, the description of Magic Missile implies that force effects are energy. So, ...


Good luck.

 

[KarinsDad]

Further more, I would argue that Nystul's Magical aura could not be seen through with true seeing.

Why?

Because it changes the apparant aura of an object. Does True Seeing allow the recipient to see aura's or detect magic? Nope.

You could argue it, but people might not agree with this.

True Seeing penetrates illusions. The two Nystuls spells are illusions which mask auras as opposed to masking light, sound, heat, etc.

With respect to Divine True Seeing, it does allow you to see auras and to see through illusions, so Clerics definitely can see the proper aura through Nystul spells.


And, just because you cannot enhance True Seeing does not mean that you cannot have another spell like Detect Magic up at the same time and enhance the Detect Magic.

If you had both spells up, Detect Magic would allow you to see the aura and True Seeing would indicate that the aura was false. The enhance True Seeing limitation appears to be for scrying beyond your normal visual range (i.e. scrying, clairvoyance, etc.). But, this aspect of it is debatable since the wording is not totally clear.

 

[Oni]

You could argue it, but people might not agree with this.

True Seeing penetrates illusions. The two Nystuls spells are illusions which mask auras as opposed to masking light, sound, heat, etc.

With respect to Divine True Seeing, it does allow you to see auras and to see through illusions, so Clerics definitely can see the proper aura through Nystul spells.


And, just because you cannot enhance True Seeing does not mean that you cannot have another spell like Detect Magic up at the same time and enhance the Detect Magic.

If you had both spells up, Detect Magic would allow you to see the aura and True Seeing would indicate that the aura was false. The enhance True Seeing limitation appears to be for scrying beyond your normal visual range (i.e. scrying, clairvoyance, etc.). But, this aspect of it is debatable since the wording is not totally clear.

Here is the SRD text:

"You confer on the subject the ability to see all things as they actually are. The subject sees through normal and magical darkness, notices secret doors hidden by magic, sees the exact locations of creatures or objects under blur or displacement effects, sees invisible creatures or objects normally, sees through illusions, and sees the true form of polymorphed, changed, or transmuted things. Further, the subject can focus its vision to see into the Ethereal Plane (but not into extradimensional spaces). The range of true seeing conferred is 120 feet.

True seeing, however, does not penetrate solid objects. It in no way confers X-ray vision or its equivalent. It does not negate concealment, including that caused by fog and the like. True seeing does not help the viewer see through mundane disguises, spot creatures who are simply hiding, or notice secret doors hidden by mundane means. In addition, the spell effects cannot be further enhanced with known magic, so one cannot use true seeing through a crystal ball or in conjunction with clairaudience/clairvoyance."


I don't see anything about seeing auras.

You say that Detect Magic could be enhanced by True Seeing, if we use that logic then we oculd say that clairaudience/clairvoyance is also enhanced by True Seeing and not the other way around. However it is clearly spelled out in the spell description that this does not in anyway work. Detect Magic and True Seeing gain absolutely no combined benefit.

Detect Magic also nowhere in the spell mentions that you see the auras only that you detect them. Indeed you can sense them in places you that surely cannot see as there are rules concerning detecting magic through barriers.

It says, one more time:

"In addition, the spell effects cannot be farther enhanced with known magic..."
Scrying is used as an example not the end all be all of what is described as KNOWN magics. I mean that covers a vast field, and certainly anything printed in the core rule books, up to and including Detect Magic.