OA Shaman unarmed BAB and damage question

[Orin]

I'm rolling up a shaman from Oriental Adventures here. It says shamans get unarmed strike at level one and it is in the shaman description described as such:

Unarmed Strike: Shamans gain Improved Unarmed Strike as a bonus feat.

There is the standard shaman BAB, which is the same as a Cleric's and Monk's armed BAB.

There is no mention about damage but going from the PHB an unarmed attack for a medium character does 1d3 + str bonus subdual damage.

So am I supposed to conclude from this that without more points in strength I'll be doing 1d3 subdual damage at level 20? (if ever) unarmed? If so why even give the unarmed strike ability. Just for the Improved? Like this it's insignificant really.

My other theory is that monk damage and unarmed attack tables could apply, since that's the only other class that gets unarmed strike at level 1 that I know off. That might be a bit too much on the overpowered side.

Can anyone explain to me how this works?

Something along the lines of standard Shaman BAB and the monk unarmed damage table for small creatures seems more fair to me to be honest.

 

[Orin]

To add to this, the Shaman receives bonus martial arts feats every 4 levels, which would indicate unarmed combat is actually an important part of the shaman class.

 

[Mahali]

It means you get the Improved Unarmed Strike feat for free. That's it.

 

[Orin]

So even though the class gets a bonus unarmed combat feat every 4 levels, without investing every point I get from now in STR I'll still be doing 1d3 subdual damage at level 20?

That just feels wrong, but hey if that's the rules then I guess it will have to be a cleric again who can just equip an 1d8. Sure a shaman could probably do that too, but what's the idea behind the bonus unarmed combat feats then? Behind the only wearing light armour? It just doesn't make much sense to me.

 

[Black Omega]

I'm rolling up a shaman from Oriental Adventures here. It says shamans get unarmed strike at level one and it is in the shaman description described as such:

Unarmed Strike: Shamans gain Improved Unarmed Strike as a bonus feat.

There is the standard shaman BAB, which is the same as a Cleric's and Monk's armed BAB.

There is no mention about damage but going from the PHB an unarmed attack for a medium character does 1d3 + str bonus subdual damage.

You've picked a very good class. The game I run has a Vanara Shaman. It's an excellent overall class. Maybe a little stronger than others.

And this is correct. 1d3+str. If you are not putting any of your stats into str, it doesn't sound like you are trying to build a front line fighter anyway. There are other martial feats that add to damage, though.

(if ever) unarmed? If so why even give the unarmed strike ability. Just for the Improved? Like this it's insignificant really.

It's not a big part of the character class, true. But you get free martial arts feats. The shaman class gets alot of different abilities. Animal Companions like a Druid. Nice saves, ability to turn dead, the ability to get three domains, all the spell casting of a cleric.

The martial arts is a small part of the whole package.

Can anyone explain to me how this works?

Unless the class states it gets the unarmed abilities of a monk, it doesn't. You have it right, the unarmed strike and martial arts are a minor part of the Shaman. With all the other powers Shamen have, adding monklike unarmed would be overkill.

 

[Black Omega]

That just feels wrong, but hey if that's the rules then I guess it will have to be a cleric again who can just equip an 1d8. Sure a shaman could probably do that too, but what's the idea behind the bonus unarmed combat feats then? Behind the only wearing light armour? It just doesn't make much sense to me.

Honestly, if you want to simply play a tough melee fighter who can cast spells, the cleric is better. Shaman also get d6 instead of d8. Saves are roughly comparable since the shaman will get the cha bonus to them. But a cleric will have more hp's and heavier armor, just less diversity.

 

[Orin]

Well the problem I'm stuck with is that we have a small group of only 4 people. We have a fighter, a rogue/wizard and a sorcerer so I feel it's somewhat important to be able to take some hits and dish out some damage in a pinch.

My former character (unfortunately the only good one in the party) was a dwarven priest of Clangeddin who got paralyzed and then a coupe de grace in his left eye by an improved invisible wizard while the rest of the party ran off on their long legs to save their hides. Great way to die isn't it :/

I'm starting to fear that with the lack of a second fighter type class I can't afford to play the shaman, because of his lower hit die, lower armour and worse combat efficiency etc. I'd be pretty vulnerable being pretty much the party's only source of healing. Add to that the fact that I unfortunately have a lot less ability points to go on than last times' fortunate rolls.

There are some nice unarmed feats that paralyze and blind at 13+ dex and 17+ wisdom, but planning my stats for those would mean my unarmed damage would certainly not be up to par, because I simply can't muster enough strength.

I'll have another look at it. If anyone can give me some advice on how to fit a shaman in a group like I mentioned (like how to play him) feel free, as even with the crap unarmed damage and armour it has some good things going for it. I'd like to try it out.

 

[hong]

So am I supposed to conclude from this that without more points in strength I'll be doing 1d3 subdual damage at level 20? (if ever) unarmed? If so why even give the unarmed strike ability. Just for the Improved?

Flavour. It's a kung fu thing.

 

[Black Omega]

Re: Re: OA Shaman unarmed BAB and damage question

Flavour. It's a kung fu thing.

Agreed. And how you ever noticed someone can be punched 50-60 times in those Kung Fu movies before losing? The 1d3 is why.

 

[Black Omega]

Well the problem I'm stuck with is that we have a small group of only 4 people. We have a fighter, a rogue/wizard and a sorcerer so I feel it's somewhat important to be able to take some hits and dish out some damage in a pinch.

Here's the question for me. What role do these other people have in combat, and what level is your group at? Is the Wizard/Rogue any use at all?

As far as a frontline Shaman goes, forget unarmed combat. Max out your animal companion. That will give the group a secondary fighter with decent hitpoints. Make sure you train it a command for retreat, though. If the others do good amounts of damage, then adding in summon spells is good to provide more arrow fodder.