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<blockquote data-quote="tetrasodium" data-source="post: 8069620" data-attributes="member: 93670">In the past there were more exceptions to the S and M and V rule just about everythin in 5e seems to have&amp; there were more ways to ignore one of those. 5e&nbsp; also seems more concerned with focus items.&nbsp; In past editions prior to 4e you didn't&nbsp; really have cantrips anyone bothered to rely on in combat &amp; the wand/staff&nbsp; still did nothing over having a component pouch tied to your belt so you could still cast when you were not using your xbow/sling/staff poorly.&nbsp; 5e having cantrips as they are winds up making the wand feel more important but then the offensive cantrips are scaled to character level rather than something like wand+caster level or a nonscaling wand &amp; it cuts casters off from what limited rocket sled 5e pretends is magic item progression.A lot of the problem could be fixed just by jettisoning offensive cantrips as they are &amp; introducing caster weapons that require or scale based on caster level as it was once defined.&nbsp; Hald &amp; third casters could suddenly be balanced with powerful class features not needing to consider that they cast the same firebolt/toll the dead/etc as a cleric/wizard/sorcerer every round &amp; the wizard/sorcerer/castertype cleric wouldn't be so exempt from the loot treadmill or the ability to disarm them of their +5holy avenger equivalent.&nbsp;&nbsp; Adding that kind of thing is impossible in 5e without screwing class balance &amp; needing a ton of new class rewrites but it could be baked into an a5e&nbsp; from the start to free up all kinds of design space for those partial casters.&nbsp; Those caster &quot;weapons&quot;&nbsp; don't need to be on the same level as things like ye old wand of $spell &amp; just need &quot;This wand/staff has the proper runes &amp; crystals allowing you to cast $cantrip&quot; or &quot;This tome includes the details needed to reliably cast&nbsp; the following effect as an action&quot;.&nbsp; As an added bonus it gives rooom to differentiate caster focuses into something like simple 1h/2h.&nbsp; Orb/crystal/holy symbol are for up close &amp; cone effects, wand/rod are for standard ranged damage dealing stuff... Staffs are for the big guns that deal damage and make you cry with some kinda debuff like ray of frost &amp; frostbite in addition to cantrips that just make you cry cause their main effect is a spammable minor buff/debuff</blockquote>

[QUOTE="tetrasodium, post: 8069620, member: 93670"] In the past there were more exceptions to the S [I]and[/I] M [I]and[/I] V rule just about everythin in 5e seems to have& there were more ways to ignore one of those. 5e also seems more concerned with focus items. In past editions prior to 4e you didn't really have cantrips anyone bothered to rely on in combat & the wand/staff still did nothing over having a component pouch tied to your belt so you could still cast when you were not using your xbow/sling/staff poorly. 5e having cantrips as they are winds up making the wand feel more important but then the offensive cantrips are scaled to character level rather than something like wand+caster level or a nonscaling wand & it cuts casters off from what limited rocket sled 5e pretends is magic item progression. A lot of the problem could be fixed just by jettisoning offensive cantrips as they are & introducing caster weapons that require or scale based on caster level as it was once defined. Hald & third casters could suddenly be balanced with powerful class features not needing to consider that they cast the same firebolt/toll the dead/etc as a cleric/wizard/sorcerer every round & the wizard/sorcerer/castertype cleric wouldn't be so exempt from the loot treadmill or the ability to disarm them of their +5holy avenger equivalent. Adding that kind of thing is impossible in 5e without screwing class balance & needing a ton of new class rewrites but it could be baked into an a5e from the start to free up all kinds of design space for those partial casters. Those caster "weapons" don't need to be on the same level as things like ye old wand of $spell & just need "This wand/staff has the proper runes & crystals allowing you to cast $cantrip" or "This tome includes the details needed to reliably cast the following effect as an action". As an added bonus it gives rooom to differentiate caster focuses into something like simple 1h/2h. Orb/crystal/holy symbol are for up close & cone effects, wand/rod are for standard ranged damage dealing stuff... Staffs are for the big guns that deal damage [I]and[/I] make you cry with some kinda debuff like ray of frost & frostbite in addition to cantrips that just make you cry cause their main effect is a spammable minor buff/debuff [/QUOTE]

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