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General Tabletop Discussion
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition (A5E)
Object interaction, spell components, unarmed attacks and hand usage
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<blockquote data-quote="CapnZapp" data-source="post: 8071060" data-attributes="member: 12731"><p>Okay. Just make sure it's much clearer than in 5E which horns/shells/etc are meant to be useful and which are only ornamental. </p><p></p><p>My point is something slightly different: <strong>have</strong> natural weapons that really are useful. <strong>Don't have</strong> only natural weapons that in the end turn out to be useless, except in corner cases at very low level.</p><p></p><p></p><p>I am not suggesting you should be able to switch instantly between loadouts.</p><p></p><p>I am suggesting that "switch between loadouts" become a standardized action that doesn't force players to keep track of (and thereby optimize) hand usage.</p><p></p><p>As for the torch example, well, that's special. The D&D game simply isn't doing a good job balancing between "sword and torch" and other weapon loadouts. Meaning that if you don't have darkvision, you're simply worse off. Designers usually take same effort to balance two weapons, greatweapon and sword-and-board, but I see zero evidence sword-and-torch is given a balanced design. Especially since it is so trivial to avoid the non-darkvision races, and/or have a caster use magical light.</p><p></p><p>The idea that every fighter pretty much needs his own light source to fight effectively just isn't supported by D&D. (Have you ever been in a dark place where your buddy holds the flashlight? If you have, you realize the idea of "I put magical light on the tip of my blade" should really make it impossible for everyone else to see anything, since your light source would pretty much cause a dizzying kaleidoscope rather than the steady light everyone assumes is given off by somebody else's torch)</p><p></p><p>[ISPOILER]This is especially evident in Pathfinder 2 with much more fiddly hand usage rules. Basically, my players don't even consider reserving one hand to hold a torch, as that would lower DPS dramatically. Rangers are simply expected to use both hands on their knives or longbow. Barbarians are simply expected to use a greatweapon with both hands. The only characters that can afford to keep one hand free are the casters that don't need to, since they'd rather use magic than mundane equipment. Plus, it's so damn easy to go around the "use torch" idea - a human can simply multiclass into Wizard to get a light cantrip and thereby solve his own lighting issue.[/ISPOILER]</p><p></p><p>So let's not force characters to count hands and spend a different amount of actions just to open doors! Simply say it takes one action to open the goddamn door, <em>and every hand interaction with your weapon loadout is included</em>. Nobody's interested in the difference between the sword and boarder having to sheathe his sword, open the door, and draw his sword again vs the greatweapon wielder releasing the grip to use hand to open the door vs the two daggers guy having to hold both daggers in one hand while opening the door. Move next to the door, spend your action, and... you're back in action! Ready to move into the next room, every hand and every weapon right where it needs to be! <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f642.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":)" title="Smile :)" data-smilie="1"data-shortname=":)" /></p><p></p><p>Simplify the game for an universally positive benefit.</p><p></p><p>I'm arguing that we need to open our eyes to realize <em>nothing</em> is lost by dropping the old byzantine hand usage rules.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="CapnZapp, post: 8071060, member: 12731"] Okay. Just make sure it's much clearer than in 5E which horns/shells/etc are meant to be useful and which are only ornamental. My point is something slightly different: [B]have[/B] natural weapons that really are useful. [B]Don't have[/B] only natural weapons that in the end turn out to be useless, except in corner cases at very low level. I am not suggesting you should be able to switch instantly between loadouts. I am suggesting that "switch between loadouts" become a standardized action that doesn't force players to keep track of (and thereby optimize) hand usage. As for the torch example, well, that's special. The D&D game simply isn't doing a good job balancing between "sword and torch" and other weapon loadouts. Meaning that if you don't have darkvision, you're simply worse off. Designers usually take same effort to balance two weapons, greatweapon and sword-and-board, but I see zero evidence sword-and-torch is given a balanced design. Especially since it is so trivial to avoid the non-darkvision races, and/or have a caster use magical light. The idea that every fighter pretty much needs his own light source to fight effectively just isn't supported by D&D. (Have you ever been in a dark place where your buddy holds the flashlight? If you have, you realize the idea of "I put magical light on the tip of my blade" should really make it impossible for everyone else to see anything, since your light source would pretty much cause a dizzying kaleidoscope rather than the steady light everyone assumes is given off by somebody else's torch) [ISPOILER]This is especially evident in Pathfinder 2 with much more fiddly hand usage rules. Basically, my players don't even consider reserving one hand to hold a torch, as that would lower DPS dramatically. Rangers are simply expected to use both hands on their knives or longbow. Barbarians are simply expected to use a greatweapon with both hands. The only characters that can afford to keep one hand free are the casters that don't need to, since they'd rather use magic than mundane equipment. Plus, it's so damn easy to go around the "use torch" idea - a human can simply multiclass into Wizard to get a light cantrip and thereby solve his own lighting issue.[/ISPOILER] So let's not force characters to count hands and spend a different amount of actions just to open doors! Simply say it takes one action to open the goddamn door, [I]and every hand interaction with your weapon loadout is included[/I]. Nobody's interested in the difference between the sword and boarder having to sheathe his sword, open the door, and draw his sword again vs the greatweapon wielder releasing the grip to use hand to open the door vs the two daggers guy having to hold both daggers in one hand while opening the door. Move next to the door, spend your action, and... you're back in action! Ready to move into the next room, every hand and every weapon right where it needs to be! :) Simplify the game for an universally positive benefit. I'm arguing that we need to open our eyes to realize [I]nothing[/I] is lost by dropping the old byzantine hand usage rules. [/QUOTE]
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Object interaction, spell components, unarmed attacks and hand usage
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