D&D 5E Obligation to give new players a "Core" game?

[Sword of Spirit]

What are the best ideas to include? Table Rules? Core idea of the game? Very rough setting details? a map? [/b]

I'd say all of those, with the possible exception of the map. Definitely the core idea and anything the players will want to reference, like table rules or things they would all know (like brief summary of local politics and religion).

 

[S'mon]

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Frenzied Berzerker is easy enough for any setting.

Path of the Totem could use desert themed creatures such as the buzzard, hyena and camel.


This excellent art by Robot Kun picks up on one totem animal that could be used, the lion.

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The Mahdist Dervishes seem as close to D&D Raging Barbarians as Norse Vikings do - not thag close in either case, but good enough for D&D.

 

[S'mon]

It'll be a "soft arabic", and by that I mean a lot of the old tropes from normal RPGs will be there. The only real deviation from the PHB I'm thinking at the moment is that slavery might be legalized. Not sure if that's a good idea, and I'm still mulling it over.

Slavery is illegal in the PHB?!
Do you just mean there aren't prices for slaves in the PHB?

 

[erwtenpeller]

This thread has been a very informative read, thank you.

 

[Remathilis]

And I, as stated, think this is exactly the wrong thing to do--at least, the way you've phrased it, e.g. limiting people to the Core Four races and classes (human/elf/dwarf/halfling; fighter/wizard/cleric/thief). It enculturates players to think that there is a special or privileged subset of concepts--it perpetuates the idea that some races and classes are The Norm and other races/classes are, even *should be,* limited/rare/weird in all worlds. That's not the spirit of D&D even back in the olden days, when Gygax was perfectly comfortable allowing people to play balors as long as they were open to starting low and aiming high.

And now I'm just really confused, because this paragraph sounds nothing like your opening sentence. The opening sentence reads very distinctly, to me, as "new players should only be allowed to do Very Traditional Things." The rest of the paragraph, on the other hand, is exactly the opposite of that. That is, it reads to me as: don't tell a brand-new player "no" unless you really, really have to because it stifles creativity, and that is the absolute last thing an introductory D&D game should do.

So...I guess we agree? Even though your opening sentence is something I vehemently disagree with? I'm confused.

You misunderstood. My point was that they should be given the option to play those Basic options and not limited (or radically changed) when making their first PC.

For example, if I had some new players (who had never played D&D) I'd make sure wherever I set my game had at least the four basics for PCs to choose from at bare minimum. I wouldn't say "there are no halflings in my dessert kingdom" or "all wizards are put to death for heresy on the spot" If possible, I'd try to allow the entire PH as well. My point was that I don't think its a good idea to start a new player in a place where the basic options aren't available.

 

[fuindordm]

Monks and barbarians = Wandering mystics, dervishes, desert warriors, and so forth.
All the basic races are close enough to human that they don't really change the feeling of an Arabian Nights setting.
I excluded dragonborn and sorcerers.
I slightly reflavored half-elves, tieflings, and warlocks.

Ben

 

[Wik]

Slavery is illegal in the PHB?!
Do you just mean there aren't prices for slaves in the PHB?

More or less, yeah. Slavery is generally something that doesn't exist in the core game - and it is never encouraged as something that "civilized" races do. Now, I fully agree with this approach, but I like running games based off the ancient world, and it's pretty hard to avoid the issue.

I mean, I *can*. After all, I avoid the sexism issue and assume gender equality, as well as gay rights being a standard in my games, so why can't I just ignore the issue? But then... part of me wants to have a Spartacus show up. Plus, my current campaign (just north of this setting) has a big issue involving the rights of slaves, and the main nation is descended from escaped slaves, so...

I dunno. Seems like an iffy issue to bring up when you don't really know your players too well.

 

[Wik]

I'd say all of those, with the possible exception of the map. Definitely the core idea and anything the players will want to reference, like table rules or things they would all know (like brief summary of local politics and religion).

I talked it over with the gf, and we came up with a rough outline that contains the following:

1. List of the rules of our house. As in, BYOB (but don't overdrink), no drugs on or near our house, respect everyone there, etc.
2. List of what's cool in the game. As in, I like my games rated R for violence, but not NC 17. And my games are rated PG 13 (if that) for any form of sexuality. Language is a soft R. Sort of something like "You can describe how you kill a kobold, sure, but no graphic descriptions of how you interrogate it. You can try and flirt with a barmaid, but anything else happens "off camera" and we don't wanna hear about it. And you can curse, but maybe make sure you can say at least every second word in front of grandma".
3. A basic idea of what D&D actually IS.
4. Repeat about a million times that you don't need to know the rules to play.

 

[Lanefan]

* When I say I've got 20 players lined up, that means around 20 people in this town who know I play D&D, and have expressed playing the game "at some point". My GF and I have put together a list, and we'll ask these people if they're interested. This list will be pared down until we have a group that's relatively stable. My general idea here is to run a game without a stable roster, with a rotating player base, until things slowly become more and more stable and the most interested people remain. I won't play with a table of more than seven players, however (my monday night games are at six players at the moment).

So the DCC-RPG "funnel method", only to generate players rather than characters. I like it!

It'll be a "soft arabic", and by that I mean a lot of the old tropes from normal RPGs will be there. The only real deviation from the PHB I'm thinking at the moment is that slavery might be legalized. Not sure if that's a good idea, and I'm still mulling it over.

A compromise might be to have it technically illegal but it happens anyway, and the authorities more or less turn a blind eye depending who provided the most recent bribe. (my campaign's core region works that way, this gave lots of fun roleplaying opportunities when one of the early major characters' past profession was "slaver" and I ran a modified version of the old A-series)

* I'm going with "keep it simple, stupid". So, no multi-classing or feats. And I might see if there are other rules I can excise, at least at the beginning.

Yep. It's way easier to add things in later if you and your group want them than it is to delete things already established in the game.

* It will NOT be an open Sandbox, [MENTION=29398]Lanefan[/MENTION]. Normally, I'm all for this type of play, but because this campaign will be secondary to my main campaign, which is already a lot of work, I'm just gonna kind of railroad this one. It's new players and a rotating player base at that - they don't really need the sandbox. But I know what's out there if they go off the tracks. (and any module I pick to throw at them will be approachable from multiple angles. It's a requirement for any adventure I run these days).

Fair enough, and I agree about the approachability of adventures.

* I already have a few adventures picked out. I WON'T be using "The Lost City", but I was thinking of using "Marauders of the Dune Sea" and "The Bullywug Gambit" both because I've played in them before, and would like to convert them to a new setting. I might start the game with "keep on the borderlands", or a smaller Dungeon module.

If you want to give 'em some true old-school goodness throw I-3 Pharoah's Tomb in there somewhere. Someone I know is currently running it for Pathfinder, and if it can survive that conversion then making it work in 5e should be a snap.

Marauders of the Dune Sea, for a 4e adventure, isn't bad at all; and will convert easily enough. Add some passages, though, or it can get pretty linear. I'm not familiar with the Bullywug one.

What are the best ideas to include? Table Rules? Core idea of the game? Very rough setting details? a map?

Table rules as part of an overall introduction to the game, perhaps, if most of the players are brand new. And if you're going to give setting details then a map - even a rough one - is absolutely essential.

Lan-"L-1 the Secret of Bone Hill is another excellent adventure that can be dropped in anywhere"-efan

 

[S'mon]

More or less, yeah. Slavery is generally something that doesn't exist in the core game - and it is never encouraged as something that "civilized" races do.

AFAIK the 5e rules are completely silent on this, while most versions of Forgotten Realms and other D&D worlds have some nations where slavery is legal (in FR the southern ones, notably, in Mystara Thyatis & Alphatia), and others where it's not.

So I think a core game can equally well have a setting with slavery or one without.