Ocean Giant CR too high?

[Aust Diamondew]

I was looking at the ocean giants (MMII) today and was thinking of making them foes of the PCs in the next adventure I run. I noticed that they were CR 19 and after looking at their abilities I decided that 19 may be too high. So I decided to compare to Storm giants (MMI) which are CR 13. Ocean giants did not look to be 6 CRs higher maybe 1 at most.

After looking at some other creatures I decided their CRs might be to high as well paticuarly the leviathan and the Mountain Giant (the tarresque is easily more challenging than the mountain giant and is 6 CRs lower.)

So is their errata or something or did Wotc goof up?

Also could you give me your opinion on what an ocean giants CR should be, I think 13 or 14.

Thanks.

 

[Endur]

No erratta that I know of.

Some authors have commented that the MM2 CRs might be too high for Giants.

The problem is that "instant kill" spells don't care how many hit points you have. But if you don't have any "instant kill" spells that can affect one of these giants, a combat can be very long.

Also, look at it this way. Are you fighting the Mountain Giant on foot, or are you flying, improved inviisble, hasted, firing arrows at him?

Also, with regards to the Tarrasque, his CR is too low. Many of the most powerful monsters in the first MM will have revised CRs in 3.5.

Tom

 

[Rackhir]

Something to take into account would be the enviroment they will be fighting in, presumably the ocean. Since most PCs don't breath water terribly well, you should have a good perusal of the drowning rules (they are quite nasty). With out spells most PCs also don't manuver terribly well in water (well unless you just want to go straight down and are wearing armor).

Also, the Giant can probably wreck the ship they are traveling on with little or nothing the PCs can do about it. Given that it can attack from beneath the ship.

If the PCs are fighting it out of it's element, then yes, they probably are substantially less formidable. I don't know what special abilities they might have, but it is usually worthwhile to go back and familiarize your self with the effects that they can have. Something might well LOOK relatively harmless, but in the right circumstance (ie. their native enviroment) might be extremely useful/deadly.

 

[Crothian]

The CR is way too high on all the giants.

 

[Aust Diamondew]

I don't think enviromental effects are suppose to be calculated into CR rackhir (water breathing is a third level spell so any mid level PC can easily get it anyway). Any PC worth his salt by 18th level will have some way to get under the ship and stop them, hell I'd say most 13th level PCs would.
They don't have any paticuarly noteworthy powers (No DR, SR regeneration, spells etc.).