OD&D Immortals...D&Dg or ELH?

[Kwalish Kid]

Conversion of Immortal Rules/Wrath of the Immortals

I am fortunate enough to own both the gold box set and the WOTI and currently run a Mystara game in 3E. I will be taking my players (whoever is left by the time they get to 20th) to Immortal status.

I am not really going to do any real conversion. I will probably pick up Deities and Demigods and use some of the mechanics for the activities of the Immortals, but the basic progression wiht be OD&D. No prestige classes for immortality (though a path might require that the PC take one or two).

I don't think that any Immortal attains the sort of power of a greater god. In fact, I'm certain of it. Of course, with conversion between systems many things can change. That won't be one in my campaign, however.

I'm going to use a few rules from the Epic level book (whatever I can get without paying for), but that is for mortal PCs, not immortal ones.

When I get around to it, I'll make the conversion available onthe web and post it here.

 

[Arravis]

The original immortal ruleset (ie the gold box) was great. I've never seen anything that dramaticly improves it. I've DM'd and played immortals with that ruleset and I found it balanced and very playable. I just got the new deities and demi-gods but I haven't had a chance to read it yet to see how those rules are like.

 

[Apok]

I, too, remember the good 'ol Immortals boxed set, and thought it was one of the best OD&D products I'd ever seen at the time. It got used heavily in our 2e campaigns, and I found it to be an excellent means of transporting your PC from the level of the lowly peons to Immortals and eventually Gods. Since I don't have D&Dg (yet) I can't make much of a comparison, but hopefully I'll be able to once I get my hands on the book later today.

From what I do know, it doesn't seem too difficult to mix and match the concept of Divine Rank with the power point advancement used in the Immortals boxed set. Of course, with Upper_Krust coming out with his WPS, such a conversion might not be necessary.

Speaking of that, how goes the WPS project, U_K?

 

[Vecna]

I don´t know who of those who do remember the OD&D Immortals also own the D&Dg or ELH..or both...but if some do, could you give me an impression here?

I´m still hosting games on Mystara, and one of the groups has characters in the upper double digits, and I´m wondering what I´d better use to simulate the ascension into immortality? The Epic Level Handbook, or the Deities & Demigods approach? As far as I gathered, the D&Dg contains rules for making gods out of PCs...

Any suggestions?

Probably you should convert your characters using the ELH, cause characters of very high level will have abilities far superior that the ones you have at levels 1-20.
Then, for ascension, use D&Dg, but probably your character should be at least intermediate deities. Otherwise, the added divine abilities won't increase their power enough...

For an idea of an epic character, try this link

 

[Synicism]

Well, from what I've read of Deities and Demigods, it pretty much *is* the Wrath of the Immortals rules for deific advancement, updated and polished for 3rd edition. You have deific ranks, which are sort of like extra powers stacked on top of your class levels.

It seems fully compatible with the epic book. You can freely add new class levels and stuff to your deities without altering their deific power levels at all. So if 40 class levels isn't enough, feel free to add a few more. So I don't see why you couldn't use both.

 

[Upper_Krust]

Hi Apok!

From what I do know, it doesn't seem too difficult to mix and match the concept of Divine Rank with the power point advancement used in the Immortals boxed set. Of course, with Upper_Krust coming out with his WPS, such a conversion might not be necessary.

Speaking of that, how goes the WPS project, U_K?

Everythings going well - though I have to wait on the D&Dg before finishing off; and I subsequently have to wait until D&Dg enters the SRD before I can publish.

The difference between the Immortals Handbook (aka the Worship Points System) and something like Wrath of the Immortals is that the latter doesn't corelate Divinity with Worship. So really you're just tacking on powers and levels rather than trying to portray a semblance of what 'being a god' represents.

Thats not to say I don't think such immortals can exist (obviously Azathoths power isn't sustained through worship - even though he has Divine Rank 20). His power can be equated with Divine Ranks (since all power is relative) - even though it is not technically divine energy/worship.

 

[Dahak]

Re: Re: OD&D Immortals...D&Dg or ELH?

I think you could create a comparative much more easily.

eg.
Initiate = 'Chosen of'
Temporal = Divine Rank 0 (Hero/Quasi-deity)
Celestial = DR 1-5 (Demigod)
Empyreal = DR 6-10 (Lesser God)
Eternal = DR 11-15 (Intermediate God)
Hierarch = DR 16-20* (Greater God)

*36th-level Immortal = Divine Rank 19 (see Odin in D&Dg)

While I'm not totally against that scheme, some problems stick out in my mind, such as Chosens and Quasi's not being immortal.

I would however ignore the DR19 maximum displayed by the DDg pantheons, and give the five true hierarchs a DR20. Old Ones of course would be in that DR21+ category.

I'm still interested in your rules set though, especially if it meshes with the published WotC rules.

 

[AmerginLiath]

I believe DR 0 beings ARE immortal, aren't they?

 

[Upper_Krust]

Hi Dahak mate!

While I'm not totally against that scheme, some problems stick out in my mind, such as Chosens and Quasi's not being immortal.

I think Quasis are Immortal (I don't have the book yet though, so...?).

I would however ignore the DR19 maximum displayed by the DDg pantheons, and give the five true hierarchs a DR20.

I would maybe agree for the 5 True Hierarchs but for the sake of Brevity I was equating Odin with Odin.

Old Ones of course would be in that DR21+ category.

Absolutely!

I'm still interested in your rules set though, especially if it meshes with the published WotC rules.

I need a copy of D&Dg to finish things off (should take a few weeks), then it should simply be a case of waiting for D&Dg to enter the SRD.

 

[Geron Raveneye]

Hmmm...

...just read Kaptain Kantrip´s post on FFG´s "Spells & Spellcraft". Seems they´re hitting into the same breach, presenting rules on how outsiders and others can gain followers and what powers they gain through worship.

Now I´m really tickled...what to do? ELH, D&Dg, S&Sc...or wait for Krusty´s work to appear in printed format somewhen? *curses his extremely low budget*