"Oddities" in fantasy settings - the case against "consistency"

As in, commoners of those species? Then they're commoners.

There have been any number of NPC classes over the ages. And, every monster manual has had creatures of each of the PC races that have no class levels at all!

I am going to guess that this argument is really over combat encounters. Nobody cares about the class levels of the barkeep if you aren't trying to stab him.
 

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To use D&D as an example, do NPCs need to roll stats, assuming you aren't using point buy or arrays? I generally find the game was easier to run if the GM could assign stats to fulfill an NPC concept (PCs roll for game balance, not for any concern about setting consistency)
The GM can assign stats to NPCs as long as those stats fall within the possible results of having rolled them. I could just decide, for example, that Joe the (Human) Blacksmith has St 15, In 8, Wi 12, Dx 13, Co 11, Ch 10 without breaking anything, as those stats fall well within the roll-able range for a Human.

It falls apart when (to use a simplistic example) PCs of a species have their stats hard-capped at 18 but the GM assigns a 23 to some NPC's stat, e.g. if Joe here is given Con 23 instead of Con 11. That's outside the roll-able range, and thus inconsistent; even more so when one considers there's neither spell nor device in the game that can jack one's Con up by anywhere near that much.
 

I don't even think fair play is really necessarily mandating identical rules. In fact I think the opposite is true. 4e is a perfect example, but the same applies to most games. An NPC built to PC specs will just alpha strike the PCs out of existence on round one of a fight.
Having run various PC-v-NPC battles where the NPC foes were of similar calibre to the PCs (e.g. the PC party was fighting another adventuring party), I can say two things from experience:

1 - there's no real alpha-strike either way (perhaps helped by my not using side- or group-based initiative)
2 - those combats can take forever to play out!
 

There have been any number of NPC classes over the ages. And, every monster manual has had creatures of each of the PC races that have no class levels at all!

I am going to guess that this argument is really over combat encounters. Nobody cares about the class levels of the barkeep if you aren't trying to stab him.
That's the 4e synthesis. The premise of universal stats in 3.x was precisely the opposite; that I might very well care about the bartender's Profession (publican) skill, or his Listen check, or I should be able derive from a game mechanic how likely he is to hit the fighter when a brawl breaks out.

You could make the argument that 4e was both a reversion to and an expansion of earlier edition norms.
 

There have been any number of NPC classes over the ages. And, every monster manual has had creatures of each of the PC races that have no class levels at all!
The ones without class levels are commoners of the species.
I am going to guess that this argument is really over combat encounters. Nobody cares about the class levels of the barkeep if you aren't trying to stab him.
Anther instance when the barkeep's stats and class levels become very relevant is if the PCs are for some reason trying to recruit him or in some other way get him to help; which in low-level play can happen fairly often IME.
 

Yes; and even in 1e, decades ago, it made me raise my eyebrows some.

Even so, those MM entries that correspond to the PC-playable species (Elves, Gnomes, etc.) pretty much use PC rules for classes, etc. There's entries that correspond to what amount to partial classes (e.g. a militiaman doesn't have all the training of a 1st-level Fighter but has some, as an informal "0th level" before this became a formal thing in UA), but it's still possible to see the underlying structure and very easy to line it up with the listed classes.
I agree that NPCs are often 'sort of like' certain PC builds. I think there are a few reasons why. Logically both fighters and militia are martial weapon using paradigms. Why wouldn't they be similar in some ways? Nobody is claiming that it's not logical and perfectly reasonable to suppose there are 'fighting styles' for example that a PC and NPC might both know. Despite people complaining about all the differences a 4e fighter and a 'guard' stat block can easily have an almost identical power! Some creatures do things with weapons that a PC can't exactly emulate, but usually you could get close enough to be indistinguishable. Often it's just a sub-optimal approach.
 

Having run various PC-v-NPC battles where the NPC foes were of similar calibre to the PCs (e.g. the PC party was fighting another adventuring party), I can say two things from experience:

1 - there's no real alpha-strike either way (perhaps helped by my not using side- or group-based initiative)
2 - those combats can take forever to play out!
Why would any NPC caster hold back? Try this in 3e or 4e, In 4e the NPC side wins hands down 3 out of 4 times. It may be more random in 3.x but that's not good either! 5e is probably a bit more workable, but even so NPCs are free to burn any daily resource like spell slots right up front.
 

Which modules? I have pretty much all the classic early 80s modules, and I don't know of a single one which provides anything close to a character sheet for an NPC.
In 1e, an NPC "character sheet" is a brief stat block: level, ability scores, hp, AC, alignment, spells, equipment - but bear in mind that a PC character sheet is barely any more than that: you might add languages and encumbrance. While there are plenty of examples of deviation from any standard formula ("the minstrel can cast Magic User spells at the fifth level of ability"), there are also plenty of examples where all of this data is presented relatively coherently and consistently, and the NPCs follow the same rules as the PCs.

I'm looking at G3 right now, and Obmi the dwarf, the female human rogue in the dungeon, and literally all of the drow are fully statted and follow the same rules as PCs. All the other monsters are...monstrous. But it would appear that humans and demi-humans are deserving of the full treatment.
 
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Why would any NPC caster hold back? Try this in 3e or 4e, In 4e the NPC side wins hands down 3 out of 4 times. It may be more random in 3.x but that's not good either! 5e is probably a bit more workable, but even so NPCs are free to burn any daily resource like spell slots right up front.
That assumes the NPC casters are going to nova while the PCs don't. However, the NPCs - just like the PCs - would assume they're going to win and thus be concerned in-character with what happens next after this battle is over, and in light of this might conserve resources just like the PCs do.

That, and even if they do nova they can still each only cast one spell a round. :) And in my game they're way more interruptable than any of 3-4-5e have it.
 

In 1e, an NPC "character sheet" is a brief stat block: level, ability scores, hp, AC, alignment, spells, equipment - but bear in mind that a PC character sheet is barely any more than that: you might add languages and encumbrance. While there are plenty of examples of deviation from any standard formula ("the minstrel can cast Magic User spells at the fifth level of ability"), there are also plenty of examples where all of this data is presented relatively coherently and consistently, and the NPCs follow the same rules as the PCs.
Believe me, I know chapter and verse of 1e characters. Yes, if you ignore a lot of stuff you can create fairly brief sheet for a fighter, but it will omit a lot of important stuff unless they are really low level, plus what is gained for such an NPC? All you actually care about is level, hit points, AC, etc. Nobody cares about it's CON or whatever.
I'm looking at G3 right now, and Obmi the dwarf, the female rogue in the dungeon, and literally all of the drow are fully statted and follow the same rules as PCs. All the other monsters are...monstrous. But it would appear that humans and demi-humans are deserving of the full treatment.
It may well depend on which G3 you have? Mine is the original standalone module. I didn't go through them in detail, but the casters seem heavily standardized and omit a lot, so we can't really say they're legal or not. Yes they have some bits of info not found in MM stat blocks, but rules don't actually exist in 1979 era 1e for Drow anyway, and even later the rules were inconsistent and in most sources differ from monster Drow in various ways.
 

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