Of fun and games; was "WoW is not an RPG"

[F4NBOY]

"What's RPG?"
That's a million dollar question.
There are many answers but no ultimate answer, ultimate definition.
It's like asking what is justice.

 

[Asmor]

Role playing game, taken literally, is a game where you play a role.

Therefore I posit that almost every game ever invented, with the exception of abstracts like checkers and go, are role playing games. Candyland? RPG. Go fish? RPG. Chutes and Ladders? RPG. Monopoly? RPG. Paddlin' a canoe? You better believe that's a paddl-- woops, lost my train of thought. Sorry!

 

[Asmor]

It's like asking what is justice.

Justice is a 7-letter word. What do I win?

 

[Fifth Element]

Whether it is or not an RPG, what does it matter? What difference does it make whether it can "truly" be called an RPG? Beyond mere elitism, I mean.

 

[Elfan]

Whether it is or not an RPG, what does it matter? What difference does it make whether it can "truly" be called an RPG? Beyond mere elitism, I mean.

It doesn't make any difference to achieve some artificially purity with a definition. I didn't say that RPG == better.

It does matter that games are of different kinds when you are designing new ones. Inevitably games borrow from each (this is a good thing). But the way one borrows from a similar game is differnt from borrowing from something completly differnt. When done carefully this leads to cool new things (Duex Ex is like an RPG/FPS hybrid for example). However, if done accidentally or carelessly you can end up with something that no longer has what you originally wanted in it.

This is normally self evident; there is no need to write that if the designers of Halo 3 are heavily influenced by Diddy Kong Racing strange things will happen. But because of their shared history and similar acronyms I believe this needed to be pointed out in the case of RPGs and games like WoW. Or between sub-genres of you prefer.

With Blizzard's success many people will inevitably look at WoW when they create new games. My hope is that the people making 4e remember that they are looking at something fundamentally different. There are certainly lessons to learn, but that could be said of any other game.

 

[TwinBahamut]

Argh... We just had this thread! I don't want to either go looking for this (less than a month old) thread or repost all the discussion from there, but...

I am sorry, but your statements that "WoW is not an RPG", and your assertion that this is not a value judgement, are ludicrous.

The first statement is demonstratably false, since you are simply defining the term "RPG" in an arbitrarily specific manner, unrepresentative of its widespread use. There are many, many places that would simply disagree with your definition, and as such, it is a fairly useless definition. If you want a good example of what I mean, go visit more gaming focused sites like www.rpgamer.com, or the like.

The second assertion is also easily disproven. You said: "A RPG on the other hand allows all those unlimited possibilities that WoW couldn't." This statement clearly places WoW as something not worthy of being an RPG, placing RPGs as more important and "above" games like WoW. As such, despite your denials, you are claiming "RPGs" to be better than WoW.

I think you might want to re-examine your motivations for this thread, since certain biases are deeply undermining the objective viewpoint you seem to be striving for.

Also, I suggest looking for the last thread on thsi subject. It is a good read. Too bad they kept changing its title, so I don't even know what to tell you to look for...

 

[Hjorimir]

Cute answer, but really not at all accurate. Before dismissing the quality of someone's roleplay, you probably ought to take a gander at some of the roleplaying guilds and see their accounts of what they do.

I wasn't dismissing anybody's quality of roleplaying. I've been in RP guils before. But MMORPGs are still not role-playing games.

My statement is accurate, Monopoly is not a role-playing game; what I may say as Warren Buffet has exactly zero influence on what happens on the board. That hard disconnect there demonstrates why Monopoly, like WoW, is not a RPG.

 

[Whizbang Dustyboots]

With Blizzard's success many people will inevitably look at WoW when they create new games. My hope is that the people making 4e remember that they are looking at something fundamentally different. There are certainly lessons to learn, but that could be said of any other game.

Good ideas should be taken from anywhere. If someone comes up with a way for hopscotch to improve D&D, I want them to consider it.

After all, look at Jenga. Last I heard, it wasn't an RPG, but look at how well it works out for Dread.

 

[Whizbang Dustyboots]

My statement is accurate, Monopoly is not a role-playing game; what I may say as Warren Buffet has exactly zero influence on what happens on the board. That hard disconnect there demonstrates why Monopoly, like WoW, is not a RPG.

Again, you can make substantive choices in WoW that aren't suboptimal play for the sake of RP. The choice between Scryer and Aldor, the choice between Steamwheedle and pirate, these are all real choices that shape a character. And that's to say nothing of all the choices one can make in customizing a character

The arguments about WoW not being an RPG really sound like they're being made from a position of unfamiliarity with the game. (And a 10 day free pass does not constitute real familiarity.)

 

[Krug]

I play a lot of WOW, but wouldn't call it a RPG. RP servers are only about 15-20% of the overall population, and even on them, you find probably 50% of folks don't RP. To the vast majority, the game seems to be more of a numeric exercise.