OGC Wiki?

[ukgpublishing]

Well this is a nice long thread, and not having enough time to read through the entirety to see if this has been brought up, I figure hell I'll post it anyway

Now I am not a lawyer, I wish I was, more money. But reading both the Open Gaming License and the GNU Free Documentation License, I seriously believe that an OGL wiki would be illegal under both licenses.

Why?

Well lets read the OGL (or at least the pertinent section)

2. The License: This License applies to any Open Game Content that contains a notice indicating that the Open Game Content may only be Used under and in terms of this License. You must affix such a notice to any Open Game Content that you Use. No terms may be added to or subtracted from this License except as described by the License itself. No other terms or conditions may be applied to any Open Game Content distributed using this License.

However, reading the GNU license we see:

2. VERBATIM COPYING

You may copy and distribute the Document in any medium, either commercially or noncommercially, provided that this License, the copyright notices, and the license notice saying this License applies to the Document are reproduced in all copies, and that you add no other conditions whatsoever to those of this License.

So clearly we see that the GNU license is adding terms to the OGL, and the OGL is adding terms to the GNU license. Activities which BOTH licenses prohibit.

Now as I say I am not a lawyer, but on that basis alone I would certainly consult one before i even dipped my toes in the act of creating such a wiki.

Thats all the excitement I can contain for one evening after reading legalise documents.

TTFN

 

[Nellisir]

RPGNow.
DrivethruRPG.
and now, EN Game Store.

The cost to register at RPGNow is around $40, I think?
The EN Game Store is $99 ($20 for Pick n' Mix only?), a price set, in part, as a barrier to new publishers.

There's no monopoly. Current publishers aren't some monolithic organization with a lock on the entire market.

There's a lock on distribution.
I don't want to get sidetracked, so I'm going to be brief. I'll be happy to expand if necessary; feel free to send me an email.

A monopoly doesn't care about people -joining- it. Heck, it loves it. That's the current situation. You pay your fee, and get into publishers club. I don't know DrivethruRPG or the EN Game Store's policy, but I'm pretty certain RPGnow has restrictions on free product (yes, I understand why. that's not the point).

Someone who only has a feat, or wants to distribute a free product, has no viable wide distribution channel. A successful repository would give them one.

The crux of the matter is distribution. I have a huge library of OGL/d20 products (bought and paid for, every one). I could legally scan every one and put the OGC online, but no one would care as long as I wasn't or couldn't distribute it.

I could get behind the OGC Wiki, IF I retained the right to say: "Pull that." and the people running the Wiki would comply. It's only fair.

Same question to you as to Mr. Pramas. What about the "Open-Source Community"-inspired concept/repository? You WOULD retain the right to say "pull that" -- in fact, without your express consent, it would NEVER be posted at all. All it'd ask is that if you benefit from that repository, the product that benefits is fed back in, after 12-18 months (ok, I don't remember what I initially posted).

Sincerely,
Nell.

 

[Ralts Bloodthorne]

On a note, regarding PDF publishers holding a monopoly...

Please, go to the Publisher's Forum on this very board, and look around. You'll find instructions how to do everything, from shoestring budgets to methods for those who have 2-3K to drop down.

If you want to get into publishing, if you want to get published, it's really not that difficult, and there are many publishers right here, on these forums, who will take a look at a submission that you give them.

Even if it's rejected, they'll tell you why, and often tell you how to improve your work.

Once that is done, you simply go to RPGNow and apply. It's a fairly simple process that even a drunken, flamethrower packing, kettle stirring chimp like me can handle.

 

[Man-thing]

Someone who only has a feat, or wants to distribute a free product, has no viable wide distribution channel. A successful repository would give them one.

www.d20projects.com

THis is a messageboard site devoted to people personal development that they wish to freely share with others.

 

[Nellisir]

On a note, regarding PDF publishers holding a monopoly...

Please, go to the Publisher's Forum on this very board, and look around. You'll find instructions how to do everything, from shoestring budgets to methods for those who have 2-3K to drop down.

If you want to get into publishing, if you want to get published, it's really not that difficult, and there are many publishers right here, on these forums, who will take a look at a submission that you give them.

Even if it's rejected, they'll tell you why, and often tell you how to improve your work.

Once that is done, you simply go to RPGNow and apply. It's a fairly simple process that even a drunken, flamethrower packing, kettle stirring chimp like me can handle.

Also, RPGNow has a couple of great books on publishing/e-publishing.

Personally, I'm not on some moronic vendetta against publishers. I've had my article in Dragon. I own the RPGNow books. I majored in creative writing. Any reasons why I'm not "a publisher" or "a published author" lie solely in the realm of my own responsibility.

And this damned thread, for sucking away so much time this week. I was going to write the Great American d20 Accessory tonight!!


Nell.

 

[Ralts Bloodthorne]

The cost to register at RPGNow is around $40, I think?

Ummm, not exactly.

The basic package

• You sign up as a vendor - details below.
• You upload your products in PDF or some other electronic form to our secured server, along with descriptions and cover thumbnail graphics. They appear as part of the searchable online catalogue. (We expect all products to adhere to certain basic quality standards to protect the reputation of the site - you'll get guidelines when you sign up.)
• Customers buy your product along with others in their shopping basket. We take their payment and send them a download link. Details of transactions appear in various reporting tools available to you at the site.
• We take a commission of just 25% of sales, which includes handling all the bandwidth, credit card processing and customer service for you. That leaves you plenty of room to price lower than print materials and still make more money.
• We send you a payment for each month's sales by check or Paypal on the 15th of the following month. To keep processing economical we have a minimum payment threshold of $50: if your earnings are less than that they're carried over to the following month.

Source

Now, you have to purchase a certian package, that's the $40, and believe me, for new publishers, that package you get is more than worth it. The PDF guide is excellent, as is the d20 Publishers guide.

I own both of them, and I paid more than $40 for them.

The EN Game Store is $99 ($20 for Pick n' Mix only?), a price set, in part, as a barrier to new publishers.

I have a slight contention to that.

The $99 pays for the publishers using the bandwidth, as well as built in advertising, hosting, and many other things.

Feel free to peruse how much your very own e-shop will cost you. Including paypal and credit card acceptance. Find a printer who is willing to do print on demand with you for the cost that RPGNow offers.

Seriously, man, you act like everyone involved is deliberately trying to keep people out, setting stuff up as a barrier.

I'll tell you what, I'll put my money where my mouth is.

Any of you want to get published, and think you've got the skills, email a sample of your work, show me what you've got, and I'll publish it. When your sales get to $40, you can transfer it over to RPGNow, or $99 for ENWShop, and you can start your own business.

Barriers? Not hardly. Sure, $40 can be tough to come up with, hell, I don't have $40 right now, but it isn't intended as a barrier, and I think you'd be surprised by the people who are willing to help out someone just starting.

There's a lock on distribution.

I got in. Anyone can.

I don't want to get sidetracked, so I'm going to be brief. I'll be happy to expand if necessary; feel free to send me an email.

We can take this section to the Publishing forum if you want.

A monopoly doesn't care about people -joining- it. Heck, it loves it. That's the current situation. You pay your fee, and get into publishers club. I don't know DrivethruRPG or the EN Game Store's policy, but I'm pretty certain RPGnow has restrictions on free product (yes, I understand why. that's not the point).

The restriction is: "We won't host it. You can have it here, but the download must come from your own source."
That's it.

Someone who only has a feat, or wants to distribute a free product, has no viable wide distribution channel. A successful repository would give them one.

What about ENWorld?

The crux of the matter is distribution. I have a huge library of OGL/d20 products (bought and paid for, every one). I could legally scan every one and put the OGC online, but no one would care as long as I wasn't or couldn't distribute it.

I have a collection of CD's, DVD's, and paperbacks. I can scan/rip them, and nobody really cares as long as I don't distribute.

Same question to you as to Mr. Pramas. What about the "Open-Source Community"-inspired concept/repository? You WOULD retain the right to say "pull that" -- in fact, without your express consent, it would NEVER be posted at all. All it'd ask is that if you benefit from that repository, the product that benefits is fed back in, after 12-18 months (ok, I don't remember what I initially posted).

Sincerely,
Nell.

It would depend on the exact wording, and honestly, my various publishers. The publishing section of my tiny little company is only for pet projects that nobody wants to pick up.

 

[BryonD]

Yup. Otherwise, there's plenty of people who wouldn't be pulling air past thier teeth.

I could do it, doesn't mean that I should do it.

Ok so we've got murder covered. check.
Are you now suggested that this extrapolates to all other aspects of life?
See, murder is pretty much a gimmie.
Your going to need to splain to me how you deal with situations where one group says you should do one thing and one group says you shouldn't.

Such as, say, one group saying you shouldn't freely distribute OGC and another saying you should.

There are people out there that, if they had this wiki, when told to take it down would look you in the eye and say: "I could do it, doesn't mean I should do it."
How do you get past your own words?
And how do you live up to your own words when the requirements contradict each other?

 

[BryonD]

But...but....we're eeeeeeeevilllllll!

We're "The Man" trying to "keep a brutha down".....or something.

Come on, man, get with the program!

As Lucy Van Pelt tells us: "It's run by a Big Eastern Syndicate, you know..."

Actually, I sincerly feel for you on this one.

You make something that has a quality that other people desire.
In the minds of many people, it is a sad truth that the need to negotiate with you to fulfill their want instantly qualifies you as "evil" or "the man" or something equally absurd.

 

[Ralts Bloodthorne]

Ok so we've got murder covered. check.
Are you now suggested that this extrapolates to all other aspects of life?
See, murder is pretty much a gimmie.
Your going to need to splain to me how you deal with situations where one group says you should do one thing and one group says you shouldn't.

By going with what the law says, or what group I trust more, or which will damage me in the least.

Such as, say, one group saying you shouldn't freely distribute OGC and another saying you should.

I look evenly at both sides, and try to decide which one has the best points, which ones are talking from altruism and not greed, which side has the most to lose and which side has the most to gain.

There are people out there that, if they had this wiki, when told to take it down would look you in the eye and say: "I could do it, doesn't mean I should do it."

True, very true.

It's plain and simple, I find other methods.

How do you get past your own words?
And how do you live up to your own words when the requirements contradict each other?

Simply.

I watch both sides, and decide when, and if, I choose to support, remain silent, or be against a topic.

Earlier, I was leaning toward an OGC Wiki.

Now, I'm leaning against.

Here's a good question for you...

Why should I support an OGC Wiki?

Brass Tacks? What's in it for me?

 

[Nellisir]

Now, you have to purchase a certian package, that's the $40, and believe me, for new publishers, that package you get is more than worth it. The PDF guide is excellent, as is the d20 Publishers guide.
I own both of them, and I paid more than $40 for them.

Yep. I have them too. Good stuff.

I got in. Anyone can.

Oh god. I give up. You win.

I have a collection of CD's, DVD's, and paperbacks. I can scan/rip them, and nobody really cares as long as I don't distribute.

Well, that's illegal. Distributing OGC is legal.

It would depend on the exact wording, and honestly, my various publishers. The publishing section of my tiny little company is only for pet projects that nobody wants to pick up.

What wording would you like to see? PLEASE!

I'm trying to find a middle ground here, and all anyone can say is "you're going to steal my stuff". And I say, "No, I won't steal your stuff", and everyone says "you're going to steal my stuff".

Nell.