OGC Wiki?

[philreed]

That said, I was already under the impression that the offender in Phil's case had made steps to rectify the problems.

Well, he said he had dealt with the issue but if you look closely you'll see that he's still using the D20 Future trademark on his products.

And the example I was citing actually didn't even involve this issue -- it's a completely separate mess on top of everything else.

 

[philreed]

I wonder if a store is liable for the sale of such material? If so, I wonder if a store is liable for the selling of unclearly marked OGC

I don't think they would be. But I could be wrong. I assume stores can get into legal trouble if they sell material they know to be stolen but this question is far outside of anything I've ever dealt with.

 

[Nellisir]

It's important to note that you're an exception to the standard customer. For the most part, customers could care less about OGC in a product.

Yes, I'm an exception. And to get to anyone in my gaming group, you go through me.

I regularly game with at least 10 people who have no effective knowledge of any RPG publisher outside of WotC, WW, and SJG. I run an OGC-only game. Who do you think refers products to these players? This isn't an exception to the norm -- this IS the norm. Most groups have one or two "immersed" gamers, and the rest buy WotC. If you want the rest, you have to woo the ones you see online...like me.

People have gotten smarter and better educated about TV, movies, the internet, digital technology, nutrition, and health care. Why do you assume people will get stupider about OGC? Look beyond the next 3 months. The longer the OGL is utilized and in the public sphere, the more people will become aware of it and it's ramifications.

Cheers
Nell.

 

[Nellisir]

I am afraid I disagree. I do not share your appreciation of informed customers and their importance at all. Sales are and will be based on a customer base that doesn't even know what the OGL is.
Those who become adversarial are a minority in the gaming public that is so small it isn't worth worrying about.

On the up side, Sony agrees with you 100%.

I don't purchase Malhavoc products partly due to their crippled OGC, but I don't delude myself it makes a difference.

The most important advertising tactic, bar none, is word of mouth. Any retailer that tells themselves otherwise is an idiot.
I plug Green Ronin at my FLGS every chance I get.

Cheers
Nell.

 

[jezter6]

I always love to read this argument because it comes up so frequently and some people will always say the same things...

"I'm being nice with my OGC, but if anyone ever decides to actually USE any of it, I'm going to cut down to the bare minimum, because god forbid my open content actually becomes open."

If Phil is only talking about closing up flavor text and fluff, then I see that as something that should be done in the first place. Crunch sells, and there's no need to reuse fluff. I hope that's the case in phil's argument. If it's the "screw you all, I'm not putting out any more feats or classes because then someone else can use them" then I'm all for someone going out and creating a site like this.

There are already a ton of feats, classes, spell, AND monsters out there. I think we've seen that you can only do so much of something before it gets worn out (How many books on dwarves are there?). But, if I want to create me own SCI-FI product, I shouldn't HAVE to reinvent 10 new classes because it's a giant waste of time...there's already 50 decent ones out there, and I should be able to take the 10 best and use them in my product. Let's say for example that all of the 10 best are Phil's...and I use all 10 and base my product around them...suddenly everyone gets up in arms because I'm using someone else's open content, which is (IMHO) why the OGL was designed.

Personally, I don't think it should be free either. The person/people who would do such an endeavour deserve to be paid the for hard work it is to compile that much OGC and format it correctly, AND have a rock solid section 15. Publishers don't want others to profit on their work, so that's why they don't like this idea much.

 

[philreed]

Why do you assume people will get stupider about OGC? Look beyond the next 3 months.

Sorry, I didn't mean to imply that I thought people were stupid when it comes to OGC. I just meant that, for most, it has no impact on their enjoyment of gaming.

 

[philreed]

Let's say for example that all of the 10 best are Phil's...and I use all 10 and base my product around them...suddenly everyone gets up in arms because I'm using someone else's open content, which is (IMHO) why the OGL was designed.

Actually, as long as you got the Section 15 correct and weren't releasing tons of material for free, I wouldn't be upset at all. Many have used OGC I created in their products and that's fine with me. The only times I have a problem with wholesale use of existing OGC is when it's used improperly (and when it's intentional misuse it seriously upsets me) or when it's dumped online for free (which, as I said, devalues the work*).

And I suspect that a lot of publishers feel this way about the use of OGC.


* Yes, I am speaking of monetary value. The time put into the creation of OGC has value to the creators and publishers and simply releasing complete works online, for free, makes me think that the individual releasing the material has no respect for the effort that went into the creation of that material.

 

[jezter6]

Phil, care to comment on your stance of lowering your open content percentages? I'd just like to know which of my above quotes is the stance of Ronin Arts on this.

Will it be closing up flavor text and such, or cutting down on the amount of open crunch?

 

[philreed]

Phil, care to comment on your stance of lowering your open content percentages? I'd just like to know which of my above quotes is the stance of Ronin Arts on this.

Will it be closing up flavor text and such, or cutting down on the amount of open crunch?

I would never close crunch. In my opinion any rules that I've written* -- or may write in the future -- are automatically based on the material found in the SRD. I feel this is true about any rules published by any publisher but I understand that many disagree with my opinion on this subject.

Does that make sense?


* Assuming we're talking about OGL products and not original games, obviously. And even then I've got a history of releasing new systems under the OGL -- see the vsM Engine SRD and logo license.

 

[jezter6]

I didn't mean closing content that MUST be open, I meant decreasing the number of "must be open" items in a product....like cutting out most of the feats because they're open instead of having a ton of them in the book.