OGL "Mob" Type (People Swarm) New! More Dangerous! Manes! Zombies! Elementals! Oh My!

[Victim]

Who needs Great Cleave or Whirlwind when you just use Power Attack for all your mob clearing needs? Those feats are normally very useful versus groups of foes, yet useless when those groups are "organized" into mobs?

Similarly, the disparity between Fireball (let's say 5d6, or about 17) on 30 villagers and the same spell on a mob composed of the same things bothers me. Normally, we'd be looking at all the guys caught in the blast radius dead or dying. If they're packed together like a mob, that'd be all of them. On the other hand, even with the bonus damage from area attacks, that 25 damage or so barely dents the 120 HP villager mob. While the same problem exists with swarms (17 points of damage to everything within 20 ft would kill all normal insects), it's not as big of a deal. Most swarms have less than thirty HP, so that fireball is still a big deal, even if it would normally kill everything. And fireballs are pretty much the only way to hurt swarms. So the contribution from fireball looks like a good deal. But when an area attack that should kill everyone is barely more than the full power attack a fighter type would be expected to do.

 

[Evilhalfling]

Okay, some comments on the revised mobs -
The bandit mob I worked up, was to represent the old idea of 50 or so bandits
witing to ambush large caravans. This was really hard to play against a party- the irritation of running the fight outwieghed the realism of such and encounter. Still at a certain level villagers would no longer be a threat.
In such numbers the orginal swarms did a highly random amount of damage this seems more fitting for a mob
Attack and Damage
Some comparison numbers
XXX
X1X
XXX
this would be the best avalible pattern acording to rules
If the group wanted to make 2 attacks - it could use aid another 3 times each
assuming bandits have attack at +2(1d8)
+2, +2(flanking)+6(aid anothers) gets +10 (2d8)
If you double up in squares then there is an addtional -4 to hit for squeezing
XxXxXx
XxPCXx
XxXxXx = 16 per target
3 attackers with 4 using aid another
+2 Base, +2 flank, +8 aid another, -4 squeezing = +8 (3d8)
but with only 2 of these attacks possible.
conclusion - Bandit mob should due virtually no damage (sigh)
So add Str bonus back in for a + 9 (2d8+2) attack on anyone engulfed.
call this a reasonalble, if generous approximation
If the mob had 15 hd (see below) you could double the damage of an individual hit, and give it a medium BAB - +10 (2d8)

Hit Dice
I think the mobs should have half the listed HD - It would be a better approximation of its willingness to fight. You could then change eliminating a member to a 1 hd loss - which seems more defensible and logical.

Arrow Burst
1. not all bandits will have missle weapons
2. each arrow has only a small chance to hit.
3. If enough arrows fall in a small area - you will get hit.
but d6 is to low - with a 5'burst you have 4 squares - assuming 20 of 30 have missle weapons thats 5 shots per square - so how bout 2d6 reflex for half
or every target in the area is hit by a +8 attack for 2d6 damage
or based on conclusions above +10 (2d6)

SO ...
Zombies
HD 30d12 (195hp)
BAB +15 (undead)
Attacks +16 (2d6+2)

Bandits
HD 15d8 (68hp)
BAB +15 (warriors)
Attacks +16 (2d8+2)
BAB was modified to make bandits more dangerous than villagers

Villagers
HD 15d6 (53hp)
BAB: +10 (experts)
Attacks +10 (2d6 +1d6 fire)
there should be some rule to prevent 1 meele attack from killing huge numbers of peasents - but the only thing I can think of is the mob takes half damage from weapons or single target spells -
.. or that the whole thing must be killed by the destroying individuals rule suggested above.

 

[Plane Sailing]

No contribution at the moment other than to say Really Cool Idea!

 

[Koewn]

Hit Dice
I think the mobs should have half the listed HD - It would be a better approximation of its willingness to fight. You could then change eliminating a member to a 1 hd loss - which seems more defensible and logical.

Hm. 6 to one, half-dozen the other - that's work just fine as well, if you're looking for less HP in the mob structure itself. My HD count was basically one for each member of the mob.

Arrow Burst
1. so how bout 2d6 reflex for half
or every target in the area is hit by a +8 attack for 2d6 damage
or based on conclusions above +10 (2d6)

That'd work as well. Heck, all my Arrow Storm really and truly is is a 6 die Fireball that does piercing damage instead of fire

there should be some rule to prevent 1 meele attack from killing huge numbers of peasents - but the only thing I can think of is the mob takes half damage from weapons or single target spells - .. or that the whole thing must be killed by the destroying individuals rule suggested above.

Well, what I imagine the abstract idea comes out to is this:

1. Normal melee, and even ranged attacks do glancing damage to several individual members of a mob at once - your sword swings and cuts 3 or 4 people lightly, instead of one guy. That's why they don't eliminate single members. Portions of the mob get wounded, others move forward, the whole writhing mass of creatures, however, is not dispersed until all those HPs are gone, even if all 30 of them would technically be half-dead.

2. Critical hits, as stated above, kill a single member outright if enough damage is done- doing HD damage as well as HP damage. That'll get the mob to disperse faster. An old-school 3.0 fighter specialized in lowering his criticals could, with cleave/great cleave, destroy outright a mob of villagers in two or three rounds due to mob HD loss.

3. Single target spells that do damage - they do take half damage (it's in the description at the top of the post). A Charm Person, however, will just cause the Elimination of a Mob Member, since one dude will leave the mob.

Perhaps there should be some verbage in there so Cleave/Great Cleave have an extra effect against mobs, now that I think about it.

No contribution at the moment other than to say Really Cool Idea!

Thanks! It's born of necessity - my deep-seated need to throw hordes of creatures against my PCs has always been offset against the pain-in-the-butt it is to actually play 30-40 creatures individually.

That, and one of my PCs is also *my* DM, and he has a fascination with Swarms. This'll show him


Koewn

 

[Ferret]

I still like but the abstract addition without an explanation (the mob mentality...)

Maybe something like: Any mob with an inteligence between 8 and 14 gains a +8 on will saves, as members that fail are rallied by their companions.

 

[Koewn]

I still like but the abstract addition without an explanation (the mob mentality...)

Maybe something like: Any mob with an inteligence between 8 and 14 gains a +8 on will saves, as members that fail are rallied by their companions.

Right. I probably should add that as a SQ.

But, I'd hate to quantify it - the Villagers, I gave them +10, because they're mad as hell, and they're not going to take it anymore.

The Bandits, +8. (probably should be +6 or +4) They've got that whole 'Oath of The Road' comradery going, but in the end, they're in it for themselves.

So, perhaps two distinct qualities - Mob Mentality, and, oh, Discipline. Or something like that.

That's the whole deal with these things. Just like Swarms, you really can't make a template out of it; it's a monster in and of itself. Gotta go with what makes sense.

Bonus: Upcoming this weekend, the dreaded Medium Earth Elemental Mob. It rocks. (*rimshot*)

Thanks!

Koewn

 

[Ferret]

Rimshot must mean something different where you come from....

You have a point on that though. Each is an indvidual creature. Or a group. Yeah, each is a group creature..... Forget it.

 

[Koewn]

I always thought rimshot was the Ba-Dum-Dum/Clang, the little drum roll/cymbal clash after a stupid joke. As in: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rimshot

The only other thing I can think you'd be thinking of I cannot define.

It is kinda odd to treat them both as individuals and groups at the same time, true. Swarms make more logical sense, sine they're a group of low-to-no intelligence.

Anyway. I will have the Earth Elemental Mob added in just one moment.

Thanks!

Koewn

 

[Boss]

Consider this idea stolen for my campaign, and you posted at just the right time. Thank you very much!

Rimshot - When I was a drummer in high school band many moons ago, a rimshot was striking the rim of your snare or whatever with the stick, usually, but not always, while the stick was laid lengthwise across the drumhead. We also placed one stick across the drumhead and then struck it with the other stick, creating a loud sharp sound.

And now we return you to your regularly scheduled D&D thread... sorry for that small detour.

 

[Ferret]

The only other thing I can think you'd be thinking of I cannot define.

Thanks!

Koewn

Thats probably the one. I also thought you might have been refering to the rim of a basketball hoop, going for a longshot....