Okay. I officially miss paper versions

[Imaro]

I don't really care to go round and round about this. Your position seems to be that it's just as valid to view things in as negative a way as possible as it is to view them more positively. If you want to do it that way, fine. Based on my observations, it is more than likely not the path to a happier, more stress free use of ENWorld. But hey, different strokes and all that.

No... how is hey, think about the fact that this line has been tossed around alot when people say they don't like something on these boards and maybe take that (as well as what they're real issues or problems are) into consideration before posting it... in anyway looking at it negatively? Again it is looking at it from both sides instead of just one... The same way I consider a poster may not realize that his answer could be annoyingly patronizing at a certain point. In other words both sides should think about where the other side is coming from, especially when you post but aren't even addressing the posters issues of why they don't like something.

I feel either you aren't understanding what I'm saying or you want to paint what I'm saying as negative when it is in fact not. What I am saying is think instead of ascribing good or bad motives to a poster... but also that the poster should think about what he is posting before posting it. You are right though, this is pointless, as you've already decided what I mean and that it is negative, so I'll drop it.

 

[Rel]

I feel either you aren't understanding what I'm saying or you want to paint what I'm saying as negative when it is in fact not. What I am saying is think instead of ascribing good or bad motives to a poster... but also that the poster should think about what he is posting before posting it.

You were correct about the lack of understanding. I think I'm finally getting what you are saying. I believe you are saying that certain lines of argument ("Give it a chance/Wait and see.") have been used to try and convince people to like certain aspects of 4e over and over to the point where those at whom it has been targeted are frustrated and insulted by it. Therefore those who say such things, even when meaning no harm, ought not to do so out of consideration.

Is that right?

 

[phloog]

As the owner of four laptops of various generations (got rid of my Osbourne 1 many years ago or it'd be five), I can tell you that I still run into situations where the family is going on a long drive and my wife will be driving a leg or two of it....it's always great to just grab a magazine and go.

Could I take a laptop? Sure, but even at the newest weights, sizes, etc. you're talking about needing a battery powered appliance to read your magazine, having to boot it up, etc. The number of times I slapped a copy of the old Paizo mags in a tote bag or suitcase is uncountably large. With any e-book you have boot-up, navigate, then read, then you have to go through the whole shut down thing.

As much convenience as portable computers have added to my life, it is NOT the easiest way to read.

I get the search/cut/paste/etc argument, which is why I love Kobold Quarterly, which you get in print AND pdf form. <<plug>>

 

[Imaro]

You were correct about the lack of understanding. I think I'm finally getting what you are saying. I believe you are saying that certain lines of argument ("Give it a chance/Wait and see.") have been used to try and convince people to like certain aspects of 4e over and over to the point where those at whom it has been targeted are frustrated and insulted by it. Therefore those who say such things, even when meaning no harm, ought not to do so out of consideration.

Is that right?

Yes, but not necessarily that this argument should never be used... but just that the poster should really consider whether, according to the actual problems, it is a valid answer.

On the other hand I agree with you as well in that... when this reasoning is posted the person with the problem should give the poster the benefit of the doubt as well, since they may not see it as patronizing.

In other words, both sides should really give it some thought before posting.

 

[Rel]

Yes, but not necessarily that this argument should never be used... but just that the poster should really consider whether, according to the actual problems, it is a valid answer.

On the other hand I agree with you as well in that... when this reasoning is posted the person with the problem should give the poster the benefit of the doubt as well, since they may not see it as patronizing.

In other words, both sides should really give it some thought before posting.

Well then I think we agree in principle (and I'm sorry it took several posts for me to grasp the essence of what you were saying) though perhaps differ as to degree.

As to the topic at hand, I will say that I am an increasingly large fan of the DDI where once I was a strong skeptic. However the magazines are the one area where I find the format to be less useful because of the digital nature. This isn't because of the articles I think will be useful or interesting to me. It's because of the other ones that don't interest me at first.

When I'm reading a print magazine I browse through it. When I get to an article I'm clearly interested in then I read the whole thing. When I get to an article that I'm not very interested in, I skim it. But sometimes I see something that draws me in to read a portion of it. And sometimes that prompts me to read the entire thing. That's not really a workable option when I'm just going off of the titles online and deciding which to click on.

Nonetheless I view this as a minor annoyance and I'm quite happy with the DDI overall.

 

[Brown Jenkin]

You were correct about the lack of understanding. I think I'm finally getting what you are saying. I believe you are saying that certain lines of argument ("Give it a chance/Wait and see.") have been used to try and convince people to like certain aspects of 4e over and over to the point where those at whom it has been targeted are frustrated and insulted by it. Therefore those who say such things, even when meaning no harm, ought not to do so out of consideration.

Is that right?

Yes, but not necessarily that this argument should never be used... but just that the poster should really consider whether, according to the actual problems, it is a valid answer.

On the other hand I agree with you as well in that... when this reasoning is posted the person with the problem should give the poster the benefit of the doubt as well, since they may not see it as patronizing.

In other words, both sides should really give it some thought before posting.

As I originally pointed this out I thought I should respond too. I am personally getting very sick of the "Give it a chance/Wait and see." arguments that keep coming up. I have no problem with other folks enjoying 4E or the PDF magazines, but it should be recognized as well and accepted that not everyone does. I hope people realize this and are more careful in its use. To me, no matter how nicely it is couched and whatever the intent, I am getting sick of it because the implication to me is that I don't know what I like and what I don't. That may not be the intent, but intent doesn't always excuse what is said.

The OP listed many problems he saw with the PDFs. I agree with him on most. I have read many magazines, and read many internet sites. I am familiar with the pros and cons of both mediums. I don't know about the OP, but I don't need anyone telling me that if only you knew about X you might feel differently. It is fine to say I like the PDF mags because of Feature X and if the OP says "gee I hadn't thought about that" then great. But by saying "keep trying it because I like feature X and so might you" comes off as bad.

 

[Raven Crowking]

This is the second time that you have "paraphrased" what Jack99 said, both times making it seem a bit more derogatory than what he originally posted. It appears to me that you are viewing his comments in a negative light but maybe I'm mistaken. I suppose I don't understand why you would be annoyed if you felt that somebody was trying to be helpful, even if their brand of helpful didn't work for you.

Rel,

For what it's worth, I read Imaro as saying "I can see why this is getting read this way, and this is why, even though I understand that it is probably not meant this way."

I read your response as "Read it in the best possible way", which makes a lot of sense, esp. because the Internet doesn't give you voice and gesture.

If you read Imaro's response in the best possible way, he is saying that he agrees with you, and merely hopes that others might refrain from a particular response that he feels can be read as dismissive.

RC

P.S.: I prefer dead trees, because I too like to read on the couch without fearing my 2-year-old. I also like the feel of paper, and the smell of new books. I am enjoying Dragon Roots quite a bit right now, and recommend it to others.

(Of course, I've been published in every issue thus far, so I have some ulterior motive! )

 

[MichaelSomething]

If you really want a print magazine so bad, why not subscribe to one? Kobold Quarterly was designed to appeal to people who want print!

 

[jephlewis]

I only had a handful of the magazines when they were in print.
I haven't signed up for DDI yet partially because i'm not playing right now and partially because I strongly prefer print.
I'll probably start playing in the summer, and when I do, I may get a subscription. Regardless of when I play or not, i'll be getting the printed annuals for both magazines.

 

[Zaukrie]

Because KQ has 1 4E article a month, and lots of other articles. I only play 4E at this point, and don't need any 3.x stuff.