Okay so you hate Dragonlance, how can the current designers improve it?

[Kai Lord]

I noticed poor old DL mentioned an awful lot on the "Least Favorite Setting" thread, so I'm curious as to whether or not those who have played it and disliked it have any recommendations on how to make it more appealing to today's gamers?

Is it a simple thing like production values? If all the new covers were by Todd Lockwood and the interiors done by Wayne Reynolds would it make a difference to you?

More continents and "unknown" regions not covered by the novels like Eberron?

Different pantheons, organizations, or anything else? A *complete* overhaul and rewriting of the War of the Lance in gaming form in the tradition Marvel's "Ultimate" comic books?

What does it need? Let's say there was no limit to what the current designers could do to improve the setting, what would you recommend?

 

[Ankh-Morpork Guard]

Nothing could get me to play Dragonlance. Sure, I've got a couple of the d20 books, but that because I mine the rules material for my own games. I like the game mechanics end of things, but the flavor just doesn't grab me.

Really, I have enough world to use with my homebrew, Greyhawk, Forgotten Realms, Eberron, and all the Star Wars games I run. Its just so much, and I enjoy all of it well enough that I don't really have the time or the interest to jump into something else unless it REALLY catches my eye. Eberron did that. Dragonlance just...its just Dragonlance.

 

[BiggusGeekus]

DL is very character based. Very, very character based. It's also been blown up too many times for me to really trust it.

Don't get me wrong. I think the Knights of Tahahkis. Takararis, Tahkarisis, .... Tiamat are a really cool concept. I also -- mods, please don't ban me -- like Tinker Gnomes. Love 'em or hate 'em, it's an original idea. So was the 1e version of the good-guy knights, in 3e we think they're a little dull, but multiclassing was very new in 1e and at the time only bards did it. I also thought the last trilogy was neat. The most memorable moment was when Tanis realizes that the gods never left and that the entire planet was orbiting a different star. I didn't see that coming and I probably should have. Kudos to W&H!

But the game has caught up with DL. As it stands now, it's traditional fantasy with tweaks on the magic system. If people are having fun with it: PARTY ON! But I really, really don't want to invest in a world that could blow up at any time.

 

[shaylon]

Basically, the 5th Age ruined DL for me. I loved the novels, loved the 1E/2E stuff, but the 5th age storyline ruined it for me. When I read Dawning of a New Age, by Jean Rabe, she did me in. In the first chapter or two, she sets up Maelstryx, and then in one short paragraph, she fast forwards 30 years. 30 years? It just stuck a negative in my mind.

I tried the War of the Lost Souls series, thinking with Hickman and Weis back at the helm it would turn it around. It hasn't.

I am still a big Margaret Weis fan, and support her and Jaime Chambers as often as I can by buying novels direct and even the sourcebook. At the time I bought it, I had full knowledge that I had no intention of ever playing it. I will continue to support her and her company as her writing was very influentual to me, but I don't see myself ever playing the campaign. Too much has been done wrong.

As far as this post goes, I realize I talked a lot about the novels that were written and little about the game, but my position is this: With Dragonlance, the novels are crucial to understanding and playing the campaign. The world (at least the supported world, Ansalon) is small enough that the major players of the books come into play early and often in a campaign. I didn't like the way the novels played out, so I couldn't see playing in a campaign and having to deal with Mina and the rest of the butchered characters from the setting.

Now with other settings, say the realms, novels can be important, but if you don't like the way they are taking the plot, you can put the setting in any number of places that have nothign to do with novels. I am in a play by post in the vast currently. No sign of Elminster, Danilo, Khelben, or any other famous people. Just a bard, wizard, cleric, ranger, fighter, and thief trying to make our way to Raven's Bluff.

Sorry to ramble, but I feel strongly about this. I loved DL as a kid, and if it was about the same as it was when I was a kid, I'd still be playing there.

-Shay

 

[Crothian]

They already did. I was like many of the posters and not a Dragonlance fan. That was until the d20 books started coming out and I understodd that they got it right, finally. It is not the best setting out there or a perfect setting. But they finally put Dragonlance into an RPG in a way that I could run and enjoy it.

 

[Steel_Wind]

There is nothing wrong with DragonLance at all and Sovereign Press is doing an excellent job.

If you haven't noticed, every hardcover Sov Press has put out for DL has sold out and are about to go into their second printings = except for WotL and that's because they printed more of those . (An excellent book by the way.)

Part one of their fifth age adventure Key of Destiny - a fatty at 180+ pages - sold out. In an age where adventures don't sell - DragonLance adventures do.

If there is problem with DragonLance, its people's attitude towards it. You get it from DL's detractors - and you get it from a lot of its fans too:

it's the novels, pure and simple.

There are more DL novels than there are for any other world. Given the sheer volume and mass, and the popularity of the "core" novels by Weis which sell like bejeezus, there is this dogged belief that the game setting should, nay *must* reflect these novels.

It's ironic, because the Chronicles were based on the game setting, not the other way around. But it has come full circle now and new fans want the game setting to reflect the novels.

Problem is: There are too many novels and no central editing. It's just not possible for the game world to reflect all of this - and the more you try, the more you surrender your game world to the next big metaplot.

You end up having your game world being run by an author who is getting paid to write the Next Big Thing. And that is a prescription for disaster.

So it's simple: don't do that. Keep the setting the way you like it - read the novels for what they are - and make your game world your own. If you let someone else DM your world for you - it will be a disaster. That is true no matter what setting you are referring to.

I run a dreaded "alternate history" of Krynn set in the War of the Lance. That means the Chronicles never happened - and virtually everything that followed them never happened. It's my world - and I can do with it what I want. I pick and choose, plain and simple.

I think all DMs should do this - but for some reason - (probably because the DL Chronicles have sold 20 million copies and have rabid fans who want to recreate them) a LOT of DL fans and DMs cannot bring themselves to do this.

Small wonder there are those who dislike DL. I'd hate it too if I had a crappy DM run FR Eberron or what have you for me too.

It's not the setting; it's the DM and the players. DL under Sovereign Press is moseying along quite nicely, thank-you-very-much. Demonstrably. they don't need any advice from ENWorlders. They are one of the few publishers who are selling out their licensed D20 material.

 

[Angel Tarragon]

I thought that the pre-D20 versions of Dragonlance were okay. Not bad,not good, not great, just okay. But when I bought the D20 Dragonlance campaign book I was automatically in love. I loved it so much I ran out and bought a second copy. Since that time my interest in other things got piqued and my D20 book collection rivaled my WotC 3.X book collection. I think after I buy Experts, I am going to snap up what I can for Dragonlance (what, theres three other books and one module right?) then try to beef up my WotC stuff.

 

[Psion]

I don't think it's worthwhile to try. What the fans of it seem to love is by and large what I can't stand.

There are plenty of settings out there. No need to break what is obviously working for some folks in order to please folks who probably aren't going to respond to the effort.

 

[MrFilthyIke]

To me DL is a standard fantasy, and I already have GH and FR stuff. Novels were fun, but no GREAT need to play in the setting.

 

[A'koss]

I think, at this point, I would seriously consider re-imagining the entire setting - basically pull all the good elements of DL out, scrap the rest and literally remake the world anew without the burden of it's prior history.

The core theme of DL is really just having a big overarching campaign of good vs evil... with, uh, dragons.

Let's say Tiamat uncovers the secret to barring divine access (Lady of Pain's perhaps? ) and cuts Krynn off from all but the Lower Planes. She builds a huge and stable portal to Krynn and unleashes a demonic horde of dragons, demons and draconians into the world. They quickly carve out a power-base and it's up to the PCs go forth and kick ass. Perhaps Tiamat is keeping Krynn a secret from the other Demon Lords and perhaps the PCs will be forced to try and play them against her. A lot of the adventures would happen in the Outer Planes too - cutting off supply lines... in the Abyss, "smuggling" in good dragons from the Upper Planes, via the Lower Planes and into Krynn... that sort of thing. Definitely something a little on the edgier side.

Yeah, I'd play that...

Cheers!