Okay so you hate Dragonlance, how can the current designers improve it?

The reason it never turned me on was that all the DL stuff I saw was built around characters from unbearably cheesy novels that I wasn't going to read just for the sake of understanding the setting. Too much assumed reference to the heroic deeds of super ultrapowerful Whoosits and Whatsisnames, who I'd never heard of, and their universe-shattering consequences. Of course that was like 15 years ago, and now the main reason is that there are a dozen other settings around now that people I (very occasionally) play with prefer.
 

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Son_of_Thunder said:
...Don't try to Improve it! The setting's not going to appeal to everyone, it just never will. The reason I left it was 5th Age. Yes, it was an innovative system, yes they had talented people on it but that(5th Age) was the reason I left. 5th Age killed everything I loved about the setting.

At the time I was dang bitter until I realized that I had a ton of Greyhawk stuff I'd never used. Now, when it was announced that Sovereign Press was going to be doing 3.x stuff I got excited, until I picked up the core book and took it back to the store where I bought it. Dragonlance didn't translate well to 3.5 for me.

To play a rose knight you had to have a total of five classes and prestige classes. Geography wasn't the same, 5th age saw to that, Towers of High Sorcery were moved and I could list even more.

The point is that nothing could make me want to come back to Dragonlance. Go after those who never played in earlier editions; market it to new players of the new edition.

My two cents worth.
Son of Thunder, if you had been interested in the stuff before 5th Age, you may wish to check out the DLCS, plus the War of the Lance sourcebook. Both give you what you need to play before things got all messed up. And the War of the Lance sourcebook has a prestige class for Knights of Solamnia that is one class instead of 5, doesn't have the mutated geography, has Towres of High Sorcery where they are supposed to be, etc.

Obviously, it's your choice.....but I wasn't sure if you'd seen the War of the Lance book or not. Personally, I liked the DLCS, though not the Age of Mortals book so much. But they've been doing a good job, and there's been some interesting stuff....the Bestiary, the Wizards of High Sorcery supplement, etc.

Banshee
 

wingsandsword said:
If steel is so valuable that it's used in place of gold as the main currency, why does everybody have so much steel equipment?

This was, IMO, a temporary thing that should have been corrected in SAGA and later. When things go horribly, horribly wrong people stop valuing crap like gold and diamonds and begin using food, water, and clothing as the base of wealth. Once the economy gets big enough (aka recovers) for individuals to start being "wealthy" the use of consumables stops and other tokens (aka money) resumes. Iron is a necessary commodity and has the disadvantage of decaying (rusting).

The fact is that striking iron coins & ensuring purity takes work, more work than simply handing over a non-coin weight equivalent of iron. Therefore the coins are a loss-leader and cease to be cost-effective. Add in the fact that the coins will rust and cease to be authenticable and you have a second strike against iron. Once the mint has enough reputation and wealth it will switch back to a non-consumable material and the market will go on its merry way.

The whole "wizards aren't allowed to use anything other than a staff or dagger" thing. It sounds like a very, very transparent bolting on of AD&D rules into novel setting.

This was actually setting appropriate. By forbidding wizards from weilding other weapons you kept the wizard/fighter combos from happening. In a setting where the gods are weaklings afraid of the mortals the notion of a sword-weilding conan-wizard is terrifying.

Actually, the whole "3 orders of wizardry that all wizards belong to and must join or die when they reach 5th level" bit also puts me off a little.

Yeah, this was a pita to me as well. There were only 5 towers built and all were in Ansalon. Probably why Taladas was so well liked. The Orders of High Sorcery never really flourished and most mages do not follow the orders. Tamire shaman, dwarven craftsmen (mages!!), magically-capable gnimoi, Hulderfolk, and the Chasai'i (who don't use magic like any other race uses magic) are so very far removed from the Orders.

I treat a lot of it as propaganda. Who, in their right mind, would remain outside the Order if every mage in the world would hunt you down? Most people would fold just at the threat. And you can't tell people that you aren't all powerful or the truly devolted individuals will leave the continent to further their studies elsewhere.
 

Thanks Banshee16

Banshee16 said:
Son of Thunder, if you had been interested in the stuff before 5th Age, you may wish to check out the DLCS, plus the War of the Lance sourcebook. Both give you what you need to play before things got all messed up. And the War of the Lance sourcebook has a prestige class for Knights of Solamnia that is one class instead of 5, doesn't have the mutated geography, has Towres of High Sorcery where they are supposed to be, etc.

Obviously, it's your choice.....but I wasn't sure if you'd seen the War of the Lance book or not. Personally, I liked the DLCS, though not the Age of Mortals book so much. But they've been doing a good job, and there's been some interesting stuff....the Bestiary, the Wizards of High Sorcery supplement, etc.

Banshee

Thanks Banshee16,

I appreciate the thought and ya, I've seen the new book. For me it doesn't spark the old fire. I have no regrets about not going back to Dragonlance. I don't like the current designers for Sovereign Press, and yes that includes Margaret Weis.

I've left Dragonlance behind and for me it's good riddance.
 

Son_of_Thunder said:
Thanks Banshee16,

I appreciate the thought and ya, I've seen the new book. For me it doesn't spark the old fire. I have no regrets about not going back to Dragonlance. I don't like the current designers for Sovereign Press, and yes that includes Margaret Weis.

I've left Dragonlance behind and for me it's good riddance.
Sounds like a bad experience with Dragonlance prior to a system change.

And why don't you like Sovereign Press?
 

kigmatzomat said:
This was, IMO, a temporary thing that should have been corrected in SAGA and later. When things go horribly, horribly wrong people stop valuing crap like gold and diamonds and begin using food, water, and clothing as the base of wealth. Once the economy gets big enough (aka recovers) for individuals to start being "wealthy" the use of consumables stops and other tokens (aka money) resumes. Iron is a necessary commodity and has the disadvantage of decaying (rusting).

The fact is that striking iron coins & ensuring purity takes work, more work than simply handing over a non-coin weight equivalent of iron. Therefore the coins are a loss-leader and cease to be cost-effective. Add in the fact that the coins will rust and cease to be authenticable and you have a second strike against iron. Once the mint has enough reputation and wealth it will switch back to a non-consumable material and the market will go on its merry way.



This was actually setting appropriate. By forbidding wizards from weilding other weapons you kept the wizard/fighter combos from happening. In a setting where the gods are weaklings afraid of the mortals the notion of a sword-weilding conan-wizard is terrifying.



Yeah, this was a pita to me as well. There were only 5 towers built and all were in Ansalon. Probably why Taladas was so well liked. The Orders of High Sorcery never really flourished and most mages do not follow the orders. Tamire shaman, dwarven craftsmen (mages!!), magically-capable gnimoi, Hulderfolk, and the Chasai'i (who don't use magic like any other race uses magic) are so very far removed from the Orders.

I treat a lot of it as propaganda. Who, in their right mind, would remain outside the Order if every mage in the world would hunt you down? Most people would fold just at the threat. And you can't tell people that you aren't all powerful or the truly devolted individuals will leave the continent to further their studies elsewhere.

Just to point out a misconception....a White Robe would not be hunting down and killing people who refused to join the order, unless they were a grave danger. It says that in both the DLCS and Wizards of High Sorcery books. Red Robes would give a choice, and *might* kill someone who refused, and Black Robes would kill if they saw it as a benefit to themselves...otherwise they might try to use the renegade to their advantage, IIRC.

Banshee
 

My solutions:
Retcon the War of Chaos to not have included the following:
KoT invaded sections of Ansalon, but did not overrun it.
Ionthas escapes, creates/changes creatures (makes Afflicted Kender), makes some geographic changes(destroys Kendermore), reintroduces Primal Sorcery(it was there all along, but it is now more common).
Irda are not destroyed.
Some of the Heroes die/gain closure.
Ionthas fights the gods but is eventually driven away/imprisoned again.
Takhisis does not steal the world.
Magic does not go away (nor is it tied to the moon gods anyway, so it never would have went away).
Blood Sea Maelstrom is still there.
Alien Dragons do not invade
War of Souls is not needed.
Minotaurs invade ruined Kendermore.
Silvanesti are still there, still cleaning up after Loracs Nightmare.
Qualinesti(Qualinost) is still there.
Thoradin is rediscovered.
Paladine and Takhisis are still Gods or not, but the pantheons have agreed to allow sponsorship of Quasidieties (if in balance across the 3 pantheons).

I would also retcon the following:
Kender, Gnomes, and Gully Dwarves are not generally as annoying as they are made out to be. Individuals can still provide comic relief, but others are mercantile minded (Kendermeld blockades), reasonable engineers (Mad Gnomes), or just much rarer (Gully Dwarves).

Consider the following:
Spend some time to unify/explain previous world shaking events on other continents (Taladas, Land of the Brutes, etc…) and provide rationale for why Ansolon has been so central to these events.
Flesh out ancient regional histories for Ansalon and Taladas including maps and cultures/civilizations (the “Ker” of Ergoth/Sancrist, the “Ran” of Elian/Dairly, the “Ak” of Khur/Balifor, the “Xak” of Blodehelm/New Coast/Abanasinia, the “Itzan” of New Coast/Kharolis Mts/Plains of Dust, Aurim on Taladas, etc…).
Open up the prehistory to potential civilizations of Dragon worshipping Lizard Men or Huldrafolk (allow them the use of divine magic and primal sorcery). Perhaps they had as powerful and as long a reign as the Creator Races of the Forgotten Realms. I am sure this could be done while maintaining the influence of the Gods and the importance of Dragons.

I think these ideas introduce some change without throwing out all existing setting feel.
They are true to the flavor of the world (more true than the authors have decided in any case), and allow for a bit more stability as well as freedom and options for RPG campaigns.

All IMHO of course...
 

Ultimate Dragonlance

Only a *complete* overhaul and rewriting of the War of the Lance and the entire Dragonlance backstory in the tradition Marvel's "Ultimate" comic books would get me to play in Dragonlance.

The stories in Dragonlance are already written. An RPG setting needs the stories to be written by and about the game I run in my home. The setting of Dragonlance changes too often with time travel craziness.
 


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