Keeper of Secrets
First Post
I'm looking forward to actually trying it out. I have heard nothing but good things about it.
Okay, what is exactly *is* Grim Tales?
- Thread starter Sebastian Francis
- Start date
HeapThaumaturgist
First Post
I've been using GT since it came out, in my d20 Modern games. I have an excel gen for Modern and have been playing Modern games so its alot easier for me to make Modern PCs thus-far. But I've been pulling most of my actual rules from GT. For stuff like Action Points, armor, etc.
Starting in a week or so I'm going to be running a full-out GT game with a new magical system (or systems) for a homebrew. Skypirates ho!
--fje
Starting in a week or so I'm going to be running a full-out GT game with a new magical system (or systems) for a homebrew. Skypirates ho!
--fje
Angel Tarragon
Dawn Dragon
Personally, I'm sick of hearing about the book as well. 
I was going to get a subscription to Mongooses monthly publication, Signs & Portents with my February check, but now I'm going to have to get Grim Tales. I am tired of hearing about it and not knowing a thing about it.
I was going to get a subscription to Mongooses monthly publication, Signs & Portents with my February check, but now I'm going to have to get Grim Tales. I am tired of hearing about it and not knowing a thing about it.
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Wulf Ratbane
Adventurer
Let's hear it for a second surge of Grim Tales sales! Publishers love to see that.
Turanil
First Post
I must say that as much I am tired of DnD, I am really happy to have bought Grim Tales. I especially love the different spellcasting system, and the fact the classes are so generic. I envision it as perfect to go play certain ambiances I love: d20 CoC (with a pulp feel), Dark Renaissance (Warhammer kind as I currently play on Enworld pbp), or Conan like. I have also thought that if I were to play something Tolkien, these would be the perfect rules.
Wulf Ratbane
Adventurer
Here's a 12th level character I just built for my upcoming "The Seven Saxons" game, a Strong 9/Tough 3 character. (I know, he looks/acts Fast, but he's Tough instead...)
Standard Array, improved to 12th level: S14, D16, C14, I13, W10, Ch8
BAB +11/+6/+1
Armor Proficiency (light, medium, and shields)
Martial Weapon Proficiency (Flail)
Smiple Weapon Proficiency
Robust (+3 HP)
Damage Reduction 1/-
Dodge: +1 ac vs. target opponent
Mobility: +4 AC vs AoO when moving through threatened space
Spring Attack: You may move both before and after you attack
Combat Expertise
Improved Disarm (+4 bonus)
Power Attack
Improved Sunder (note Ignore Hardness below)
Ignore Hardness 2
Ignore Hardness 4
Ignore Hardness 6
Weapon Focus: Flail
Weapon Specialization: Flail
Greater Weapon Specialization: Flail
Whirlwind Attack
When the character performs a full-round action, the character can give up his or her regular attacks and instead make one melee attack at the character’s highest base attack bonus against each adjacent opponent.
Frightful Presence
When you use this feat, all opponents within 10 feet who have fewer levels than you must make a Will saving throw (DC 15). An opponent who fails his save is shaken, taking a –2 penalty on attack rolls, saves, and skill checks for 1d6-1 rounds You can use the feat once per round as a free action.A successful save indicates that the opponent is immune to the character’s use of this feat for 24 hours. This feat does not affect creatures with an Intelligence of 3 or lower.
Heroic Surge 3/day
The character may take an extra move action or attack action in a round, either before or after the character’s regular actions.
Standard Array, improved to 12th level: S14, D16, C14, I13, W10, Ch8
BAB +11/+6/+1
Armor Proficiency (light, medium, and shields)
Martial Weapon Proficiency (Flail)
Smiple Weapon Proficiency
Robust (+3 HP)
Damage Reduction 1/-
Dodge: +1 ac vs. target opponent
Mobility: +4 AC vs AoO when moving through threatened space
Spring Attack: You may move both before and after you attack
Combat Expertise
Improved Disarm (+4 bonus)
Power Attack
Improved Sunder (note Ignore Hardness below)
Ignore Hardness 2
Ignore Hardness 4
Ignore Hardness 6
Weapon Focus: Flail
Weapon Specialization: Flail
Greater Weapon Specialization: Flail
Whirlwind Attack
When the character performs a full-round action, the character can give up his or her regular attacks and instead make one melee attack at the character’s highest base attack bonus against each adjacent opponent.
Frightful Presence
When you use this feat, all opponents within 10 feet who have fewer levels than you must make a Will saving throw (DC 15). An opponent who fails his save is shaken, taking a –2 penalty on attack rolls, saves, and skill checks for 1d6-1 rounds You can use the feat once per round as a free action.A successful save indicates that the opponent is immune to the character’s use of this feat for 24 hours. This feat does not affect creatures with an Intelligence of 3 or lower.
Heroic Surge 3/day
The character may take an extra move action or attack action in a round, either before or after the character’s regular actions.
Thanee
First Post
Most of which I heard about the Grim Tales sounds really cool, except for the "generic" classes.
I don't like them in d20 modern and I surely won't like them in GT either.
Couldn't they have made their "generic" classes less restrictive than that?
For example, you cannot make a decent swashbuckler with those classes, since a swashbuckler is a highly skilled agile fighter, but if you want full BAB you have to be of the Strong class, which does not fit in the slightest.
Bye
Thanee
I don't like them in d20 modern and I surely won't like them in GT either.
Couldn't they have made their "generic" classes less restrictive than that?
For example, you cannot make a decent swashbuckler with those classes, since a swashbuckler is a highly skilled agile fighter, but if you want full BAB you have to be of the Strong class, which does not fit in the slightest.
Bye
Thanee
GlassJaw
Hero
I know you've mentioned this before about the classes but I really don't get it. I haven't seen a strong argument as to why the generic classes won't work.
The Fast Hero makes a perfect swashbuckler. If you wanted to go the fast/smooth talker, you could add in some Charismatic Hero for added flair. If you wanted more tactical abilities (like sneak attack), you could take some levels in Smart Hero. Many different people could all have the "swashbuckler" archtype in mind and come out with completely different characters. You can't really do that with the standard class system because you end having to force-fit classes into something they are not. Or have to make up some new base class altogether.
Also, GT is slightly powered down from standard D&D. You are correct, the Strong Hero is the only class that has a full BAB. The save progressions are also slightly slower. But you also have a class defense bonus and more skills in most cases.
Thanee
First Post
Within the limits of those classes... Fast makes the best swashbuckler, but it's not what I would call a swashbuckler (because it's just a moderate fighter, not a highly skilled fighter as it should be).
My problem is just that, that they link all aspects of a class to a certain "ability concept". Too restrictive in my eyes.
Don't really know how to explain this better.
Bye
Thanee
My problem is just that, that they link all aspects of a class to a certain "ability concept". Too restrictive in my eyes.
Don't really know how to explain this better.
Bye
Thanee
HeapThaumaturgist
First Post
Hrm. I've never really thought of them being that strongly tied to an ability "concept". There's no ability minimum requirements to take a class ... hell, I've given Fast levels to guys with 10 Dex before to get that +2 Def bonus because they're wiley fistfighters able to sidestep a blow from long practice.
I've always seen it as pre-balanced point buy, myself. The first time I saw the system I gave a little moue and thought: "Man. That's kinda dumb." But after about ten minutes of looking through it I jumped on it with both feet.
I've had games where four of five characters were the same "Class" with entirely different concepts, backgrounds, and resultant characters.
I had a game where three people came to the table with the same "concept" and entirely different classes used to build them.
Why does a "skilled swordsman" have to have the best BAB? What do you trade out for that when you're building the Swashbuckler Core Class? Defense? Skill points? What if somebody would rather have a bit lower BAB they compensate for with Dex and increased their Defense or class skills? Does every "Swashbuckler" get the "Witicisms" class ability? Does every Swashbuckler have good Ref and poor Will? Or do they get good everything? What if they're willing to trade some Will for Fort?
I dunno. I like D&D, play D&D. I like Mutants and Masterminds, play M&M. Personally I like the balance between the two sorts of systems that GT and Modern present. I've never found them restrictive, my players haven't either, but at the same time I don't accidentally bugger the game balance without thinking about it and I don't have to stand over my players as they build PCs thumping a club in one hand to deter them from taking everything overpowered.
--fje
I've always seen it as pre-balanced point buy, myself. The first time I saw the system I gave a little moue and thought: "Man. That's kinda dumb." But after about ten minutes of looking through it I jumped on it with both feet.
I've had games where four of five characters were the same "Class" with entirely different concepts, backgrounds, and resultant characters.
I had a game where three people came to the table with the same "concept" and entirely different classes used to build them.
Why does a "skilled swordsman" have to have the best BAB? What do you trade out for that when you're building the Swashbuckler Core Class? Defense? Skill points? What if somebody would rather have a bit lower BAB they compensate for with Dex and increased their Defense or class skills? Does every "Swashbuckler" get the "Witicisms" class ability? Does every Swashbuckler have good Ref and poor Will? Or do they get good everything? What if they're willing to trade some Will for Fort?
I dunno. I like D&D, play D&D. I like Mutants and Masterminds, play M&M. Personally I like the balance between the two sorts of systems that GT and Modern present. I've never found them restrictive, my players haven't either, but at the same time I don't accidentally bugger the game balance without thinking about it and I don't have to stand over my players as they build PCs thumping a club in one hand to deter them from taking everything overpowered.
--fje
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