Old Gods of Appalachia

[doctorbadwolf]

So my wife and I got our standard edition of the core book, and it’s pretty slick. Gorgeous art and design, wonderfully written, very evocative.

I definitely have some things I don’t understand, having not played Cypher System games before, though.

For one thing, there isn’t much way to like…round out an oddball character, especially if you play a sage. Being untrained in weapons across the board, no abilities in tier one to gain weapon training at all, on top of the hard line the game wants between the real magic user type and basically anything physical.

I figured I could make a character I’ve had in my head for a weird west game, so I gave it a try. His concept is that he is a graceful scrapper with some natural gift for the supernatural, especially seeing through people and deceptions/illusions, who is learning to delve deeper into the magic as he builds his place in his home and seeks justice for his parents.

The problem is, being trained in some magic means taking a type that gives no weapon training, so he can’t really feel like a scrapper who learned to fight on freight haulers in his teens and early 20s at tier 1. Taking a physical type means inability with magic. No Focus really lets you bypass these roadblocks.

Like I can figure out the character and make it work (Sage has 2 fairly immediate abilities and a “read people good” ability, and can get light weapons trained in tier 2) but it is odd to me that the system works so hard to silo characters with no method to round them out, while also saying in the book that “this isn’t a zero to hero game, you’re already competent and experienced”. Like why not just let player take 1 or 2 trainings completely outside their type at tier 1?

Most PCs seem to have very few skills.

Perhaps I’m overthinking it, and the mechanics of the game make it not a big deal to have no training?

does this sound like other Cypher System games?

Anyone else backed it and got y’all’s book?

 

[Fenris-77]

I absolutely love the podcast and am waiting for my books with baited breath, but I'm going to ne help with the mechanical Cypher stuff. I backed the KS despite the mechanical engine, not because of it. I'm not sure what system I want to use to run games of OGoA but I'm excited to figure it out.

 

[FrogReaver]

So my wife and I got our standard edition of the core book, and it’s pretty slick. Gorgeous art and design, wonderfully written, very evocative.

I definitely have some things I don’t understand, having not played Cypher System games before, though.

For one thing, there isn’t much way to like…round out an oddball character, especially if you play a sage. Being untrained in weapons across the board, no abilities in tier one to gain weapon training at all, on top of the hard line the game wants between the real magic user type and basically anything physical.

I figured I could make a character I’ve had in my head for a weird west game, so I gave it a try. His concept is that he is a graceful scrapper with some natural gift for the supernatural, especially seeing through people and deceptions/illusions, who is learning to delve deeper into the magic as he builds his place in his home and seeks justice for his parents.

The problem is, being trained in some magic means taking a type that gives no weapon training, so he can’t really feel like a scrapper who learned to fight on freight haulers in his teens and early 20s at tier 1. Taking a physical type means inability with magic. No Focus really lets you bypass these roadblocks.

Like I can figure out the character and make it work (Sage has 2 fairly immediate abilities and a “read people good” ability, and can get light weapons trained in tier 2) but it is odd to me that the system works so hard to silo characters with no method to round them out, while also saying in the book that “this isn’t a zero to hero game, you’re already competent and experienced”. Like why not just let player take 1 or 2 trainings completely outside their type at tier 1?

Most PCs seem to have very few skills.

Perhaps I’m overthinking it, and the mechanics of the game make it not a big deal to have no training?

does this sound like other Cypher System games?

Anyone else backed it and got y’all’s book?

My groups just built characters for it. Character building is a little intense - so many options.

I think as with most RPG's, if you walk in with too specific of a character concept you'll likely be disappointed. If you pick something that interests you that doesn't fight against the system it's probably going to be much better.

Being trained gives you essentially a +3 bonus and the game seems to encourage using lower difficulty checks. In short being trained isn't that big a deal. The bigger deal in the system from my readthrough is your edge - which you get none for might or speed. Edge reduces your ability costs (and the cost to speed effort). Meaning without a decently sized speed or might pool, good edge, abilities that enhance weapons then you are going to be pretty far behind one of the physical classes with or without training in the weapon, at least eventually.

My biggest dislike is that so many Character Descriptors give inabilities.

 

[Aldarc]

So my wife and I got our standard edition of the core book, and it’s pretty slick. Gorgeous art and design, wonderfully written, very evocative.

I definitely have some things I don’t understand, having not played Cypher System games before, though.

For one thing, there isn’t much way to like…round out an oddball character, especially if you play a sage. Being untrained in weapons across the board, no abilities in tier one to gain weapon training at all, on top of the hard line the game wants between the real magic user type and basically anything physical.

I figured I could make a character I’ve had in my head for a weird west game, so I gave it a try. His concept is that he is a graceful scrapper with some natural gift for the supernatural, especially seeing through people and deceptions/illusions, who is learning to delve deeper into the magic as he builds his place in his home and seeks justice for his parents.

The problem is, being trained in some magic means taking a type that gives no weapon training, so he can’t really feel like a scrapper who learned to fight on freight haulers in his teens and early 20s at tier 1. Taking a physical type means inability with magic. No Focus really lets you bypass these roadblocks.

Like I can figure out the character and make it work (Sage has 2 fairly immediate abilities and a “read people good” ability, and can get light weapons trained in tier 2) but it is odd to me that the system works so hard to silo characters with no method to round them out, while also saying in the book that “this isn’t a zero to hero game, you’re already competent and experienced”. Like why not just let player take 1 or 2 trainings completely outside their type at tier 1?

Most PCs seem to have very few skills.

Perhaps I’m overthinking it, and the mechanics of the game make it not a big deal to have no training?

does this sound like other Cypher System games?

Anyone else backed it and got y’all’s book?

There are plenty of ways to round out your character, but you have to figure out how you want to go about it. Generally, Descriptors are where you round out the skills and stat pools for your character. Skill training is primarily about lowering the difficulty of tasks. IME, skills are not as big of a deal as in other games. That's one reason why MCG says that the characters are fairly competent out of the gate. It doesn't mean that your character can or should do everything all at once.

However, you have to figure out how you want to build your character. Are you a Sage who fights or are you a Protector/Explorer who uses magic? What is more important aspect to you? Because you could be a Graceful Sage who Gets Rough and Rowdy, which would be a Sage who maybe likes using his fists. Or you could be a Graceful Sage who Manifests the Mountain, which would provide you weapon and armor proficiencies at Tier 3. Or you could be a Graceful/Mystical Protector who Knows the Unknowable, which would be a Protector with supernatural insight into the unseen.

 

[doctorbadwolf]

I absolutely love the podcast and am waiting for my books with bated breath, but I'm going to ne help with the mechanical Cypher stuff. I backed the KS despite the mechanical engine, not because of it. I'm not sure what system I want to use to run games of OGoA but I'm excited to figure it out.

Yeah between the issues in the OP, and the general mindset of “anything really cool should have a specified drawback”, I’m…definitely giving it a chance because of the setting and the writing, not the system.

I mean…being very educated means I’m worse at social interactions? Seriously? What year is it? Being very fast means I’m bad at balancing?! That aggressively makes no sense.

Which narrows the system a lot for me, because I will not make a character with illogically derived drawbacks that don’t actually follow from the trait they’re tied to.

 

[Fenris-77]

My expectation not to use the included system seems to be borne out nicely. I might use PbtA of some sort.

 

[Aldarc]

My expectation not to use the included system seems to be borne out nicely. I might use PbtA of some sort.

Yeah, some character Descriptors have inabilities or flaws that impair certain skills or tasks. It's partially for flavor and partially for some balance. It can be annoying if you are emotionally attached to a word that a Descriptor uses like "Educated," but it comes with a social drawback that you may not want for your book smarts character. However, creating custom Descriptors that maybe remove the drawback but are not as potent, are easily feasible.

I would also page @Lord Mhoram for his own expertise and advice for running games in the Cypher System.

 

[Randy J Mull]

The art is good but otherwise a very disappointing offering, never would use the system and the whole Appalachia part is so off and lacking. According to the book Appalachia only exists in 4 states, claims Boone which was an outta the way minor college town of no note until the past 40 years( and then as a college) or so is the heart of Appalachia and skips some of the most interesting and lore rich parts.

The map is a very poor representation of Appalachia leaving out many points of interest.

 

[Aldarc]

According to the book Appalachia only exists in 4 states,

The Appalachian Mountains extend from the southeastern US all the way up to Canada. But the borders of what you see in the map seem to reflect the boundaries as defined by the Appalachian Regional Commission (ARC). I do think that this was a somewhat controversial choice, because the ARC is less of a cultural map of the Appalachias, but, rather, it represents a government policy one oriented around rural poverty development. So there are areas outside of the Appalachian cultural regions that sought to be included in the ARC because it entitled them to additional government money for socio-economic development. You can see the differences in the map included in the spoilers below. The darker shades of red typically being considered the cultural core areas of Appalachia.

Spoiler

That said, this book provides an overview for six states in Appalachia: Pennsylvannia, Kentucky, North Carolina, Tennessee, Virginia, and West Virginia. That's not every state that touches the Appalachian cultural area, as notably northern Georgis is missing, but it does cover most of the main ones. But that is clearly more than four states.

claims Boone which was an outta the way minor college town of no note until the past 40 years( and then as a college) or so is the heart of Appalachia and

This is what it says:

If Appalachian North Carolina were a body, Boone would be its heart, sitting snug between the ribs of the Blue Ridge Mountains. This small, rugged town has become the region’s economic center, largely due to its position at the juncture of the Tweetsie and Barrow & Locke train lines.

So it only claims to be the heart of Appalachian North Carolina. Certainly debatable, but I do get where they are coming from, since Boone is the socio-economic center of the High Country region of the North Carolina Appalachias. (FYI, Western NC is broken up into three regions: High Country, Western, and Foothills. Me and most of my kin are from the Foothills.)

Now you claim that Boone is just "an outta the way minor college town," but that wasn't the case at all. Boone was and still is the county seat for Wataga County. Much as it says in the book above, Boone sat at an important railroad junction between Tweetsie Railroad and the Barrow & Locke trains, which connected a lot of trade up and down the Blue Ridge Mountains. This is the reason why Boone was selected for the site for a college for the purpose of training teachers for western North Carolina in 1899, which would eventually become Appalachian State University in 1967. (Both of my parents graduated from Appalachian State University in the late 1970s. ) Of course nowadays, when most people in western NC think of Tweetsie Railroad, we think of the small, but fairly fun amusement park of the same name, but Tweetsie was an important railway for the Blue Ridge Mountains until a flood in 1940 destroyed the tracks. But I can also understand if you think that it's outta the way, because nowadays Interstate 40 doesn't go through Boone, but, instead, it goes through Asheville, which is further south in Buncome County.*

By the way, if you ever go outta your way to no note Boone, I recommend going to the Daniel Boone Inn. There is a long line there, but I promise you that it's worth it for the family style meal. The food is excellent. Free refills on everything except the country-style ham biscuits.

* Interesting point of trivia: Buncome County is where the words "bunk" and "debunk" are derived, at least as the former pertains to nonsense. It's not a flattering origin. Let's just say that the House of Representatives thought that the then representative of Bumcombe County was speaking such nonsense that he may as well be speaking "bunkum."

skips some of the most interesting and lore rich parts.

I think that the book is not meant to detail all the interesting and lore rich parts of the Appalachian Mountains, but, rather, to represent the setting of the Old Gods of Appalachia podcast.

The map is a very poor representation of Appalachia leaving out many points of interest.

I agree that the map could be better at representing the Appalachian Mountains. Some places of interest in North Carolina, for example, are missing (e.g., Asheville) and some of the points of interest are slightly misplaced (e.g., Newland, which is depicted as due east from where I'm from in Burke County, but Newland's northwest of us and much closer to Boone). However, I suspect that this map may represent areas of interest for the podcast's Old Gods of Appalachia setting.

 

[FrogReaver]

The art is good but otherwise a very disappointing offering, never would use the system and the whole Appalachia part is so off and lacking. According to the book Appalachia only exists in 4 states, claims Boone which was an outta the way minor college town of no note until the past 40 years( and then as a college) or so is the heart of Appalachia and skips some of the most interesting and lore rich parts.

The map is a very poor representation of Appalachia leaving out many points of interest.

I think the cultural Appalachia it’s talking about exists in 5 states. Kentucky, Viriginia, West Virginia, North Carolina and Tennessee. Even then it’s only in a sliver of tn so I get why that was left off.

Of course the Appalachian Mountains cover far more states - but the specific culture being spoken of did not.

You’ll know the areas to this day because they still say Appalachia the correct way with the ‘latch’ instead of the ‘lay’.