Sylrae
First Post
I'm against the Idea of retconning big fluff changes into a system, AND I'm not a big fan of the nondiversity 4e magic (Compared to older editions).
I'm guessing many others agree(on th fluff), or the Spellplague wouldn't exist, and the people at wizards would shift their eyes around and say "It's always been this way". . .
If I'm running a game set in FR before Mystra's death (the death of cool magic in favor of 4e magic) then 4e Magic just won't cut it. Also, if I want to run a regular game (not FR) with a decent quantity of magic, the rules aren't presently there to support it.
That said, I'm thinking maybe 4e could see an implementation of magic (clerical and arcane) from older editions/novels.
The Cleric:
Basic Idea is this. Instead of one generic cleric, I want to see something kindof like the specialized priests from 2e. Most of your spell choices won't come from a generic cleric list, they will come from ALL of your domains (instead of 2, like in 3e to make up for the limited access to the general list).
Likewise, you'll have other abilities based on your domain (so not all clerics turn/rebuke undead).
Then (the part from the novels) you won't choose your spells in advance, you'll choose them on the spot, and then ROLL to see if your deity grants them to you (the difficulty will be based on the spell level and such, and the DM can give circumstance bonuses).
It won't be Vancian, because you'll have both dailies and encounter spells, and instead of an individual spell being your daily, the number of dailies will be like X 6th level spells per day. Instead of the number of dailies just getting bigger and bigger, after you have so many spells per day of that level, it then gets dropped to an encounter power. So spells start off daily, then become encounter based.Orisons would be your freebies.
Then you alter the Wizards similarly.
They still need to memorize their spells for dailies. (Vancian Magic)
Spells that are low level compared to what they can currently cast Are chosen in advance, but you can use each one as many times as you want out of whatever your max number of per encounter spells of that level are.
Cantrips are something you can just always do.
Then of course, remove some of the spells, rework some of the spells, etc.
The class would take some effort balancing the number of spells so they aren't too beefy for their level, but it seems like a good goal. Also, maybe you could have utility spells be from a separate list (with its own slots) so they don't impede on combat ability (if necessary).
What do you guys think of this Idea, and how would you go about doing it (give me advice on how to implement this). The only answer that is the "Wrong" answer is "Just u$e the 4e m4gik $y$7em pl0x. 1 R 1337"
because If I wanted to use the 4e magic system I wouldn't have made this post, now would I have.
I should note that the Idea I'm proposing makes Clerics not necessarily be healers and wizards could theoretically fill some other roles too, but that's part of the point. They aren't the only changes I'll need to make for the classes to be what I want the classes to be, they're just a start, but theyre the ones with the most changes needed (though with different spell lists you could make them still fill the roles they do currently if you so chose).
-------Detailed Explanation of the last paragraph-------
I'm guessing many others agree(on th fluff), or the Spellplague wouldn't exist, and the people at wizards would shift their eyes around and say "It's always been this way". . .
If I'm running a game set in FR before Mystra's death (the death of cool magic in favor of 4e magic) then 4e Magic just won't cut it. Also, if I want to run a regular game (not FR) with a decent quantity of magic, the rules aren't presently there to support it.
That said, I'm thinking maybe 4e could see an implementation of magic (clerical and arcane) from older editions/novels.
The Cleric:
Basic Idea is this. Instead of one generic cleric, I want to see something kindof like the specialized priests from 2e. Most of your spell choices won't come from a generic cleric list, they will come from ALL of your domains (instead of 2, like in 3e to make up for the limited access to the general list).
Likewise, you'll have other abilities based on your domain (so not all clerics turn/rebuke undead).
Then (the part from the novels) you won't choose your spells in advance, you'll choose them on the spot, and then ROLL to see if your deity grants them to you (the difficulty will be based on the spell level and such, and the DM can give circumstance bonuses).
It won't be Vancian, because you'll have both dailies and encounter spells, and instead of an individual spell being your daily, the number of dailies will be like X 6th level spells per day. Instead of the number of dailies just getting bigger and bigger, after you have so many spells per day of that level, it then gets dropped to an encounter power. So spells start off daily, then become encounter based.Orisons would be your freebies.
Then you alter the Wizards similarly.
They still need to memorize their spells for dailies. (Vancian Magic)
Spells that are low level compared to what they can currently cast Are chosen in advance, but you can use each one as many times as you want out of whatever your max number of per encounter spells of that level are.
Cantrips are something you can just always do.
Then of course, remove some of the spells, rework some of the spells, etc.
The class would take some effort balancing the number of spells so they aren't too beefy for their level, but it seems like a good goal. Also, maybe you could have utility spells be from a separate list (with its own slots) so they don't impede on combat ability (if necessary).
What do you guys think of this Idea, and how would you go about doing it (give me advice on how to implement this). The only answer that is the "Wrong" answer is "Just u$e the 4e m4gik $y$7em pl0x. 1 R 1337"
because If I wanted to use the 4e magic system I wouldn't have made this post, now would I have. I should note that the Idea I'm proposing makes Clerics not necessarily be healers and wizards could theoretically fill some other roles too, but that's part of the point. They aren't the only changes I'll need to make for the classes to be what I want the classes to be, they're just a start, but theyre the ones with the most changes needed (though with different spell lists you could make them still fill the roles they do currently if you so chose).
-------Detailed Explanation of the last paragraph-------
The 4e notion of cookie cutter party roles doesn't sit well with me, and the players in my games almost never want to make balanced parties either. 3 rogues and a swashbuckler, for example. or 2 wizards (conjuring and transmutation specialists, one of which chose evocation as prohibited), a sorcerer, and a rogue who specialized in acrobatics and didnt take open lock. Locks were opened by knock, by blasting it, by transmuting it, or by summoning something else to deal with it. 
I'm cool with that.
I feel insulted if someone assumes I'm a healer just because I'm a cleric, or that I'm a locksmith and trapdetector if I'm a rogue (I've made evil clerics for the sole reason of not being the party healer - because another player was insisting that i follow him around as a portable-auto-potion). (This is one of the things that makes me not like WoW)
I think a class needs to have a whole bunch of roles it can fill, and that they should overlap with roles of other classes.
I'm cool with that. I feel insulted if someone assumes I'm a healer just because I'm a cleric, or that I'm a locksmith and trapdetector if I'm a rogue (I've made evil clerics for the sole reason of not being the party healer - because another player was insisting that i follow him around as a portable-auto-potion). (This is one of the things that makes me not like WoW)
I think a class needs to have a whole bunch of roles it can fill, and that they should overlap with roles of other classes.
