Old - Monsters and Summoning

[Primitive Screwhead]

Hello, so I am at a crossroad between monster building and spell path building.. Summon Beast!

Creatures in OLD/NEW rank differently than 3x. A Wolf is a level 5 creature and a Bear is a level 7 {NEW Aug document} while in 3x they are CR 2 and CR 3 respectively.

The magic spells for summoning still reads the same as EoM:R where the the cost is the creatures level in MP, and double for obedient summons.

A huge parts of this hinges on the monster creation rules and level/xp calculations.. but the level range is constricted down from the 3x set.

I would go with 1/2 level, or full level with obedient.

At half, perhaps require a CHR vs 21 to gain obedience?

Thoughts?

 

[Morrus]

Yeah, another effect of using a new set of N.E.W. monsters with an old set of O.L.D. spells. I'll keep that in mind for the new version of the EoM chapter, but I must admit I haven't thought about that yet. Right now I'm in the depths of the combat chapter!

 

[Primitive Screwhead]

Roger, I am going to move ahead with the Summoning Paths using 1/2 level as the cost.

Additionally I will be allowing a WIL vs {16 plus the level of the creature} check to gain obedience, with summoning traditions gaining a bonus 1d6 for each odd rank in the tradition. Or the caster can simply pay double the MP cost.

Animal Handling, negotiation, and other skills might apply to this check.


The section on Summoning is also missing the 'multiple creatures' details even tho it is mentioned in the text "...you can create multiple weaker creatures."

Add something like:
You can summon a number of weaker creatures with this spell. To determine the max number of creatures use the following formula {or table}
subtract 1 + MP Cost of summoning one creature from the total MP spent on creature rank, and then double and round to the nearest whole number.

For example, spend 5 MP to summon multiple Wolfs, a 2MP creature: 5 - {2+1} = 2 * 2 = 4
The caster has to pass a Will vs 21 check to control the wolfs, or pay an additional 5 MP for the Obedient enhancement.

 

[Morrus]

Additionally I will be allowing a WIL vs {16 plus the level of the creature} check to gain obedience.

Why? Again (going back to that other thread), that's exactly what Mental Defence is for. Nearly every action to attack/effect someone/thing else can be summarized as Attribute vs. DEF or MDEF. If the critter has a particularly high MDEF due to decent INT, LOG, or WIL attributes, that's going to naturally factor into its XP value (and therefore level) with no other action needed on your part.

I think you overcomplicate stuff sometimes! The core system is more carefully thought out than you think! It does that already out-of-the-box. There's nowhere in the system that you need to assign arbitrary target numbers and modifiers to attack something.

 

[Primitive Screwhead]

Yes, I probably do overcomplicate things. But this isn't an 'attack' action.

You appear to be saying that when Summoning you need to make a MAG vs the Mental Defense attack against the critter{s} you are summoning and failure means that they only defend you? but can pay double cost to not bother about rolling and get an obedient summons.

Going back to complicating things.. as the current rules read you don't even roll when casting a summons. You just summon, and if you paid enough the summons is obedient.. otherwize it hangs out and defends you. SO if you have Quick-cast.. you will always quick-cast your summons, no roll means no cost.

Stating that summons require a bargaining roll to convince the summons to be obedient isn't that much of a complication. Making that roll be a WIL vs 16+MP cost means that the druid and diabolist are naturally better at summoning {both classes grant WIL boosts}, something that should probably be in their wheelhouse.

Using Mag as the core roll means that the Fire Mage is better at summoning that the core mage {assuming same skills, etc..} and the summoning is purely about how strong of a caster you are, not the tradition you seek.


I was also thinking to use the Will check based on how powerful the results of the spell is and not on how intelligent the summoned critter is.

Example: the NEW T-Rex has a mental Def of 6 and is level 9..a nastily strong combat brute.
The Wolf has a mental Def of 10 and is level 5, a much weaker combat creature. Based on using Mag vs Mental Def as the roll, it would be easier to summon a t-rex.

That is why I was looking at the Summon and negotiate sort of scenario, not only does it fit into literature better it puts a risk on casting a summons.. maybe the critter will help, maybe it won't. I prefer that since bringing another creature into the encounter can significantly shift the battle.. even if all that critter does is soak damage by taking attacks the PC's would usually take.


Why a difficulty of 16+MP cost? it fits pretty neatly into the expected range, with casters wanting to find an edge, risk a straight roll, or pay the extra mana. A 6d6 roll average hits the range of difficulty numbers, so most casters would be looking for that extra edge where they can.