Menu
News
All News
Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
Pathfinder
Starfinder
Warhammer
2d20 System
Year Zero Engine
Industry News
Reviews
Dragon Reflections
White Dwarf Reflections
Columns
Weekly Digests
Weekly News Digest
Freebies, Sales & Bundles
RPG Print News
RPG Crowdfunding News
Game Content
ENterplanetary DimENsions
Mythological Figures
Opinion
Worlds of Design
Peregrine's Nest
RPG Evolution
Other Columns
From the Freelancing Frontline
Monster ENcyclopedia
WotC/TSR Alumni Look Back
4 Hours w/RSD (Ryan Dancey)
The Road to 3E (Jonathan Tweet)
Greenwood's Realms (Ed Greenwood)
Drawmij's TSR (Jim Ward)
Community
Forums & Topics
Forum List
Latest Posts
Forum list
*Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
D&D Older Editions
*TTRPGs General
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
EN Publishing
*Geek Talk & Media
Search forums
Chat/Discord
Resources
Wiki
Pages
Latest activity
Media
New media
New comments
Search media
Downloads
Latest reviews
Search resources
EN Publishing
Store
EN5ider
Adventures in ZEITGEIST
Awfully Cheerful Engine
What's OLD is NEW
Judge Dredd & The Worlds Of 2000AD
War of the Burning Sky
Level Up: Advanced 5E
Events & Releases
Upcoming Events
Private Events
Featured Events
Socials!
EN Publishing
Twitter
BlueSky
Facebook
Instagram
EN World
BlueSky
YouTube
Facebook
Twitter
Twitch
Podcast
Features
Top 5 RPGs Compiled Charts 2004-Present
Adventure Game Industry Market Research Summary (RPGs) V1.0
Ryan Dancey: Acquiring TSR
Q&A With Gary Gygax
D&D Rules FAQs
TSR, WotC, & Paizo: A Comparative History
D&D Pronunciation Guide
Million Dollar TTRPG Kickstarters
Tabletop RPG Podcast Hall of Fame
Eric Noah's Unofficial D&D 3rd Edition News
D&D in the Mainstream
D&D & RPG History
About Morrus
Log in
Register
What's new
Search
Search
Search titles only
By:
Forums & Topics
Forum List
Latest Posts
Forum list
*Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
D&D Older Editions
*TTRPGs General
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
EN Publishing
*Geek Talk & Media
Search forums
Chat/Discord
Menu
Log in
Register
Install the app
Install
Community
General Tabletop Discussion
*Dungeons & Dragons
Old Vexed Question: All too Important Dexterity Stat and Finesse Weapons, namely the Rapier
JavaScript is disabled. For a better experience, please enable JavaScript in your browser before proceeding.
You are using an out of date browser. It may not display this or other websites correctly.
You should upgrade or use an
alternative browser
.
Reply to thread
Message
<blockquote data-quote="The Crimson Binome" data-source="post: 7551503" data-attributes="member: 6775031"><p>I changed what the stats do, mostly to address the discrepancy between saving throws (being unable to hit very high DCs on non-proficient saves, and some saves being much more common than others), but also to reduce ambiguity (particularly between Intelligence and Wisdom, and what exactly a Charisma save is supposed to cover). The end result includes the following: <ul> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">All checks are made with a combination of two bonuses.</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">PERCEPTION replaces WISDOM, as the linked stat for Survival and Medicine checks.</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">MIND replaces INTELLIGENCE, but also covers the aspects of Wisdom that are related to intuition and understanding.</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">SPIRIT replaces CHARISMA for the purposes of social skills, but it also takes over for Wisdom in determining divine spell save DC.</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">FORTITUDE saves replace Strength saves and Constitution saves. Your Fortitude save bonus is equal to Strength bonus plus Constitution bonus. Proficiency isn't a factor for anyone.</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">REFLEX saves replaces all Dexterity saves. Your Reflex bonus is equal to your Dexterity bonus plus your Perception bonus.</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">WILL saves replace Intelligence, Wisdom, and Charisma saves. Your Will bonus is equal to your Mind bonus plus your Spirit bonus.</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">Initiative is the one exception to the rule about adding two numbers together, since you add Dexterity+Perception+Proficiency.</li> </ul><p>Specifically for the balance of Dexterity, and to prevent anyone from gaining a bonus while dumping the relevant stat, there's no way to change the following:</p><ul> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">Strength is used to hit with melee weapons. If you're proficient, then you also add your proficiency bonus.</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">Dexterity is used to determine your AC. If you're proficient in the armor you're using, then you also add your proficiency bonus to AC. Even in heavy armor.</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">Constitution gives you temporary HP, that renew with a short rest. Armor adds to this value, instead of improving AC.</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">Perception is used to hit with ranged weapons. If you're proficient, then you also add your proficiency bonus.</li> </ul><p>Following those rules, you're expected to build certain ways, in order to fit your character concept:</p><ul> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">Fighters can either go Strength/Con, and just accept that you're going to get hit (and nullify much of the damage with your temporary HP); or Strength/Dex, if you want to avoid getting hit in the first place. Most fighters should end up with decent scores in both Dex and Con.</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">Monks are a subclass of fighter. They get a bonus to AC when using light armor and no shield, which means they'll probably go the high-Dex and lower-Con route. They're also still proficient with greatswords, so you can go greatsword+headbutt if you don't want to go the flurry route. Monks gain no benefit from Perception, Mind, or Spirit, aside from saving throws and initiative.</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">Rogues are intended to fight at range, so Perception is their main stat. They probably want decent Dexterity, because they don't get heavy armor. If you want to play a melee rogue, then you need to invest in Strength.</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">Rangers are a subclass of rogue, and don't have any magical powers, so all of the same advice applies to them.</li> </ul><p>There's more to it, of course. I had to change the weapon table in order to re-balance heavy weapons and light weapons, and that required a complete overhaul of some other numbers. There's nothing like GWM +10 to damage, but the relevant fighting style gives the equivalent of +1d4 at all times. A longsword in two hands is exactly as powerful as a greatsword; but the greatsword is heavy, and there's a feat that gives the equivalent of the barbarian's Reckless Attack, and it only works with heavy weapons. Piercing damage offers a slight benefit over slashing, in terms of better critical hits, but you can't use a rapier in two hands.</p><p></p><p>If that sounds interesting and you want to learn more, I recommend purchasing <a href="https://www.drivethrurpg.com/product/263549/Gishes--Goblins" target="_blank">Gishes & Goblins</a> at DriveThruRPG.com. I've been holding off on advertising, until the print version is available, but it's already available in digital format.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="The Crimson Binome, post: 7551503, member: 6775031"] I changed what the stats do, mostly to address the discrepancy between saving throws (being unable to hit very high DCs on non-proficient saves, and some saves being much more common than others), but also to reduce ambiguity (particularly between Intelligence and Wisdom, and what exactly a Charisma save is supposed to cover). The end result includes the following:[LIST] [*]All checks are made with a combination of two bonuses. [*]PERCEPTION replaces WISDOM, as the linked stat for Survival and Medicine checks. [*]MIND replaces INTELLIGENCE, but also covers the aspects of Wisdom that are related to intuition and understanding. [*]SPIRIT replaces CHARISMA for the purposes of social skills, but it also takes over for Wisdom in determining divine spell save DC. [*]FORTITUDE saves replace Strength saves and Constitution saves. Your Fortitude save bonus is equal to Strength bonus plus Constitution bonus. Proficiency isn't a factor for anyone. [*]REFLEX saves replaces all Dexterity saves. Your Reflex bonus is equal to your Dexterity bonus plus your Perception bonus. [*]WILL saves replace Intelligence, Wisdom, and Charisma saves. Your Will bonus is equal to your Mind bonus plus your Spirit bonus. [*]Initiative is the one exception to the rule about adding two numbers together, since you add Dexterity+Perception+Proficiency. [/LIST] Specifically for the balance of Dexterity, and to prevent anyone from gaining a bonus while dumping the relevant stat, there's no way to change the following: [LIST] [*]Strength is used to hit with melee weapons. If you're proficient, then you also add your proficiency bonus. [*]Dexterity is used to determine your AC. If you're proficient in the armor you're using, then you also add your proficiency bonus to AC. Even in heavy armor. [*]Constitution gives you temporary HP, that renew with a short rest. Armor adds to this value, instead of improving AC. [*]Perception is used to hit with ranged weapons. If you're proficient, then you also add your proficiency bonus. [/LIST] Following those rules, you're expected to build certain ways, in order to fit your character concept: [LIST] [*]Fighters can either go Strength/Con, and just accept that you're going to get hit (and nullify much of the damage with your temporary HP); or Strength/Dex, if you want to avoid getting hit in the first place. Most fighters should end up with decent scores in both Dex and Con. [*]Monks are a subclass of fighter. They get a bonus to AC when using light armor and no shield, which means they'll probably go the high-Dex and lower-Con route. They're also still proficient with greatswords, so you can go greatsword+headbutt if you don't want to go the flurry route. Monks gain no benefit from Perception, Mind, or Spirit, aside from saving throws and initiative. [*]Rogues are intended to fight at range, so Perception is their main stat. They probably want decent Dexterity, because they don't get heavy armor. If you want to play a melee rogue, then you need to invest in Strength. [*]Rangers are a subclass of rogue, and don't have any magical powers, so all of the same advice applies to them. [/LIST] There's more to it, of course. I had to change the weapon table in order to re-balance heavy weapons and light weapons, and that required a complete overhaul of some other numbers. There's nothing like GWM +10 to damage, but the relevant fighting style gives the equivalent of +1d4 at all times. A longsword in two hands is exactly as powerful as a greatsword; but the greatsword is heavy, and there's a feat that gives the equivalent of the barbarian's Reckless Attack, and it only works with heavy weapons. Piercing damage offers a slight benefit over slashing, in terms of better critical hits, but you can't use a rapier in two hands. If that sounds interesting and you want to learn more, I recommend purchasing [URL="https://www.drivethrurpg.com/product/263549/Gishes--Goblins"]Gishes & Goblins[/URL] at DriveThruRPG.com. I've been holding off on advertising, until the print version is available, but it's already available in digital format. [/QUOTE]
Insert quotes…
Verification
Post reply
Community
General Tabletop Discussion
*Dungeons & Dragons
Old Vexed Question: All too Important Dexterity Stat and Finesse Weapons, namely the Rapier
Top