D&D 5E On Murderhobos

[Cyrinishad]

Murderhobos, as you should all know, are adventurers who wander about, using their supernatural class powers and magic to take what they want from powerless commoners while ignoring the pitifully weak town guards.
How do you guys deal with them? There is obviously the possibility of making every town guard a 500 HP beast, or making sure every commoner is actually a shapeshifted ancient silver dragon, but honestly that would quickly get stale. After all, they hardly need to be saved by some lvl 5 adventurers if they can lay low whole kingdoms on a whim. The other solution is that there is an adventuring party every other block, each ready to spring into action when they see injustice befall their fellow humanoid, or to make some officials of justice very, very powerful and always close at hand. But what of a low fantasy world? What of a place where the group is close to the only adventuring party to walk the land, and no one has ever even seen a goblin or an orc? How could one deal with murderhobos in a world were, in a civilized context, they at the absolute top of the food chain in terms of individual power?

Such a great topic! Murderhobos have always had a special place in Cyric's heart... It amuses him to watch their pride and ego deceive them into thinking they are nigh invincible gods, as does the senseless slaughter they unleash upon the world... but his true pleasure is seeing them ground to dust when they suddenly realize they are but mere mortals, and that their fate is the same as all mortals...DEATH!

There are whispers of characters who are virtuous, who help the weak instead of trodding on them and leaving them in the mud while stealing what little belongs to them, but I do not believe in these stories; I have only seen adventurers who pillage, deceive and extort, without a shred of remorse, who will kill the NPC giving them a quest and take the reward he offers from his still-warm body, then go on the quest regardless because "Hey, we need XP! And loot!", or wait for another NPC to expose important plot points before looking at each other, shrugging and making an attack roll.

Anyway, how do you deal with murderhobos in your game, especially if it is low fantasy?

The behaviors being exhibited are combination of meta-game thinking (We need to kill to get XP!) and Chaotic Evil alignment (compulsive Murdering and Looting)... I am going to presume that the Players aren't just passive-aggressively sabotaging the game... That they are instead playing in good faith, and genuinely want to explore a campaign where they are Chaotic Evil Marauders...

There are a few things I have found to be very important to remember when preparing to DM this kind of game:

1. If the players want to be the bad guys, just let them be bad guys... Forcing them down the path of "Good" by inflating random NPCs to 500 HP, or having elite NPCs lurking off-camera to pounce on them if they're not "Good" is just adversarial DMing... There are lots of interesting stories to tell about Evil characters, and I have found frequently that players sometimes just need to get the "Evil" out of their system before they want to explore a "Good" character.

2. If you don't want your game derailed, make sure any Storyline or Quest that you are hoping the PCs will follow to its conclusion, are not dependent upon the PCs interacting in a non-violent way with regular NPCs... The players are Chaotic Evil Marauders, don't put them in situations with folks that are weak or vulnerable unless you are expecting the PCs to kill them and take their stuff.

3. Never underestimate the power of VENGEANCE! Murder has this funny way of creating more enemies than it eliminates... If we're using 5e rules, the Murderhobos are in way more trouble than they realize when it comes to this stuff, because MOBS are powerful things that can take down even the mightiest Chaotic Evil Marauders, and dish out some "Frontier Justice"...

4. Never underestimate the power of JUSTICE! The Long Arm of the Law probably reaches a whole lot farther, and is a whole lot stronger than Chaotic Evil Marauders realize... The funny thing about Paladins, or Police, or a Posse, is that these folks realize that they are mortal, that their job is very dangerous, and that they are going to be confronting the worst of the worst... So, they should be sure that when confronting a violent gang of Chaotic Evil Marauders, they should be using maximum and overwhelming force, and be using the best people, with best equipment, and best training...

5. Never underestimate the power of the BBEG! There is nothing more annoying to a BBEG, than a bunch of troublesome PCs mucking up his carefully laid Evil Plans... especially a bunch of amateur Chaotic Evil Marauders that didn't get the BBEGs permission to Loot & Pillage (it's called organized crime for a reason)... and even if he would have given his permission, I suspect that the Chaotic Evil Marauders wouldn't give the BBEG his fair share (All the Loot!)... So, any BBEG worth his salt would quickly do the math, and maniacally laugh at the equation he has just written to gain ultimate power: BBEG + JUSTICE + VENGEANCE = DEAD PCs

If the PCs want to play a Chaotic Evil campaign, it would be prudent of them to remember the old adage: If you live by the Sword, you die by the Sword... And when they eventually meet their inevitable end, hopefully they don't cry more than any of the NPCs did when they mercilessly cut them down.

 

[Warpiglet]

Yep, I'm confused. We mostly play Murderobo style, roaming the land from ancient temple to foul cavern in the earth, killing the evil forces there and loading up on their stuff. Slaughtering the villages is evil campaign stuff.

Honestly, I have the same general impression. My first thought was about watching LOTR with my kids this week. The group surely wanders, they surely kill stuff at various spots. They would like to be home but will not be home for a long time. Guess the fellowship are all murderhobos!

I just thought that is what most people did in D&D. We often did not choose to have a home base for too long just 'cause.

 

[Ralif Redhammer]

It can be frustrating to have PCs that only seem to go for the lowest common denominator of playstyles. As others have suggested, talking to your players is an important step. Also, assessing if this sort of a campaign is fulfilling for you, if you even want to run a game like that. For a single campaign, I ran with the idea that the PCs were the villains, since most of them at that point were playing murderhobos. That went well. But I wouldn’t want to do that for every campaign. There needs to be a balance between the players’ fun and the DM’s fun. Can the players meet you in the middle? It's not all on you. And if not, the question then becomes, how much do you want to game with these people?

At this point, the murderhobos in my campaigns are outnumbered by the non-murderhobos. When I see those tendencies start to emerge again, I will call for group consensus “Okay, show of hands, who wants to listen the NPC’s rumor and who wants to slit his throat and take his coin?”

Anyway, how do you deal with murderhobos in your game, especially if it is low fantasy?

 

[jgsugden]

D&D is a role playing game. Characters play a role in a story.

This story sucks. "The characters wander into town, murder people for trinkets, and then continue on their way."

Whether what the OP described deserves the label of murderhobo or not, it is still a boring way to play the game. It is just a story being told about bullies and tyrants. If the players are acting that way, I'd have a conversation with them about what type of story they want to tell in their D&D game. Do they want a story of redemption - where the PCs find a more heroic path? Or one in which they play villains - knowing that heroes will eventually end their path of destruction? Or do they just want to keep killing commoners like kids pulling the wings off flies - in which case you should excuse yourself and never return to the game table?

In the future, you can head off this style of game by giving the PCs a plot to follow in which they have an incentive to work with, or protect, these people rather than murder them.

 

[Cyrinishad]

Yeah, that’s how I understand the term. PCs wandering around killing innocent NPCs is something else entirely.

Characters with no home who kill orcs and stuff. This “murderhobo”.

Regarding the term "Murderhobo", it has always held a negative connotation to me... because Murder is decidedly Evil... when killing is justified, it's not Murder... It isn't too surprising to me that the connotation and interpretation of the term has perhaps shifted from its original intent, to kind-of poke fun at the general style of many Sword & Sorcery Adventure style campaigns...

I tend to simply call the folks that wander about killing evil monsters and looking for lost treasures... "Adventurers"... not good, not bad, just folks looking for adventures...

 

[DM Howard]

Ramp up your game, give no quarter, and go all B.A. in Knights of the Dinner Table on their butts.

 

[Flexor the Mighty!]

Regarding the term "Murderhobo", it has always held a negative connotation to me... because Murder is decidedly Evil... when killing is justified, it's not Murder... It isn't too surprising to me that the connotation and interpretation of the term has perhaps shifted from its original intent, to kind-of poke fun at the general style of many Sword & Sorcery Adventure style campaigns...

I tend to simply call the folks that wander about killing evil monsters and looking for lost treasures... "Adventurers"... not good, not bad, just folks looking for adventures...

You’re no hero.

You’re an adventurer: a reaver, a cutpurse, a heathen-slayer, a tight-lipped warlock guarding long-dead secrets. You seek gold and glory, winning it with sword and spell, caked in the blood and filth of the weak, the dark, the demons, and the vanquished. There are treasures to be won deep underneath, and you shall have them.

I always loved the description of DCC.

 

[CapnZapp]

To me this is a situation that is resolved better out of the game than in the game. If I am running the game and murderhoboism is a potential issue, I would have an out of character discussion with the players about the tone and feel of the game that I wanted to run. I would get their buy in for a game that is more about the narrative than about killing people and taking their stuff. As with any of these types of discussions I would include the players in the discussion and decision so the game is enjoyable to everyone. But if we couldn't reach a compromise on not murderhoboing, I would opt to not run the game.

This. You don't fix murder-hoboing.

You make sure you don't have the problem of having to fix murder-hoboing.

Sent from my C6603 using EN World mobile app

 

[Bardbarian]

Start a new campaign focused on heroic actions and have their quest be to defeat the evil rampaging hoard. Have the hoard be the old characters.

 

[seebs]

Yeah it's almost like the term is entirely subjective and meaningless or something...

Nah, it has a pretty well-established existing usage, but then people sometimes see it without that context, pick up or infer a new meaning, and run with that.