D&D General On Skilled Play: D&D as a Game

[Paul Farquhar]

Well if all that matters is killing monsters and getting gold and not roleplaying your characters... that's what it is.

If you see D&D primarily as a game, the win state is getting out the dungeon with the treasure.

Whether you go back in is up to you .

Whatever. If you are defining "win state" so loosely, it seems pretty much impossible to think of a way to play D&D without one.

 

[Fanaelialae]

Whatever. If you are defining "win state" so loosely, it seems pretty much impossible to think of a way to play D&D without one.

It's not @Minigiant 's definition. If you Google "win state", right there at the top of the results you'll see:

What is Win-State? Definition of Win-State: A condition or state within a game or level which designates successful completion of a predetermined task or goal.

If you consider win state to be limited to "beating the game" then you're the one using it much more strictly than its accepted usage. Beating the game is a win state, but so is completing a quest, looting a dungeon successfully, or even just taking a pie from an orc.

 

[Paul Farquhar]

It's not @Minigiant 's definition. If you Google "win state", right there at the top of the results you'll see:

What is Win-State? Definition of Win-State: A condition or state within a game or level which designates successful completion of a predetermined task or goal.

If you consider win state to be limited to "beating the game" then you're the one using it much more strictly than its accepted usage. Beating the game is a win state, but so is completing a quest, looting a dungeon successfully, or even just taking a pie from an orc.

Sure. And the point is, there is no D&D without a win state of some kind, and therefore talking about win states at all is pointless.

 

[Mannahnin]

There are games which can be played but cannot be won. Catch, for example. Or Centipede. Or "don't step on a crack".

D&D can be played in this manner or with innumerable sub-wins, or with a defined end point and goal/objective which can constitute a pre-defined win.

 

[Fanaelialae]

Sure. And the point is, there is no D&D without a win state of some kind, and therefore talking about win states at all is pointless.

You could just sit in the tavern and drink, or walk around town gossiping with NPCs. Basically just "hang out" in the game world. It would certainly be an unusual D&D game, but there's nothing stopping anyone from playing that way.

 

[Paul Farquhar]

You could just sit in the tavern and drink, or walk around town gossiping with NPCs. Basically just "hang out" in the game world. It would certainly be an unusual D&D game, but there's nothing stopping anyone from playing that way.

But if you define your "win state" as "have fun" then you still win. Unless you use a narrower-than-dictionary definition of "win state" it's pointless talking about it.

 

[Fanaelialae]

But if you define your "win state" as "have fun" then you still win. Unless you use a narrower-than-dictionary definition of "win state" it's pointless talking about it.

Having fun might be a goal of the players, but it's not typically a direct goal of the game. Rather, the goals are dictated by the rules, which should (ideally) result in fun.

In other words, the win state in Super Mario Bros isn't to have fun. It's to get to the next stage (which ultimately culminates in beating the game). Achieving these win states results in what we refer to as "having fun".

 

[Minigiant]

There are games which can be played but cannot be won. Catch, for example. Or Centipede. Or "don't step on a crack".

D&D can be played in this manner or with innumerable sub-wins, or with a defined end point and goal/objective which can constitute a pre-defined win.

You can play D&D and not go for a win state.

My point is if you play D&D as a game and with skilled play, you are emphasizing the win state. By emphasizing the win state, criticism of focus on winning is hypocritical.

If the focus of your table is solving the puzzle, you are focusing on winning.

 

[HomegrownHydra]

The thing is.

If D&D is a game, then there must be a win state.

Many D&D fans do not like the concept that you can win at D&D.

You can't say you hate builds and optimization if D&D is a game.

You can play D&D and not go for a win state.

My point is if you play D&D as a game and with skilled play, you are emphasizing the win state. By emphasizing the win state, criticism of focus on winning is hypocritical.

If the focus of your table is solving the puzzle, you are focusing on winning.

Who in this thread is this directed towards?

 

[Minigiant]

Who in this thread is this directed towards?

This is a discussion about D&D as a game, metagaming the game aspect, and focus on player based challenge, is it not?